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too_picky

How can you deal with a GC you don't trust?

too_picky
16 years ago

I feel stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place, and would really appreciate any advice or tips that you guys have for dealing with a rotten contractor. You can look at my previous posts on water damage and wet insulation to see the mess we're now in. It is being fixed, and I believe in the correct manner, but the much bigger issue is that our contractor has proven unwilling to do the right thing unless forced to by an inspector, holding back large amounts of money, and the threat of an attorney. I wish we could fire him and use someone else but that is not a very good choice. We are in a small enough town/region where if we fired the GC we would also lose all of the qualified subs in the area and watch our costs double when we tried to get further work done with a different GC. Beyond that I just found out today that the GC is in bed with the bank, and can only imagine the financial/legal mess that could ensue if we switch contractors. Sigh, it's ugly. So far the best solution we've come up with is to be onsite two to three times during the day (as much as we can manage with both of us working full time) to put everything possible in writing, and to use the inspector (who we think is quite reliable and on our side) for the rest of the project as a stick to try and force the GC to do things right. We have a lawyer lined up to use as a last resort if things aren't getting done in the right manner, but there are so many small details that can be covered up or overlooked, how can we manage this without completely loosing our sanity? I know I've heard that contractors are almost all a rotten bunch but is it usually this bad?

Comments (12)

  • sierraeast
    16 years ago

    If time is on your side and you are not in a big hurry due to loan deadlines,etc, maybe it would be possible for you to find a builder who has a crew that pretty much eliminates the need for subs. A builder that basically builds from the ground up with the help of a crew and little or no outside help from subcontractors?

  • too_picky
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    That is a good idea. I don't know if we have anyone in the area like that, but it could be worth a try. Thanks for your thoughts.

  • mel71
    16 years ago

    No, it is usually not that bad! Your contractor sounds like a nightmare. Unfortunately, guys like him give the profession a bad name. My contractor has been great. He is very communicative and very trust worthy. He gives me receipts for everything and when he thinks a price is too high, he keeps looking until he finds a price that is good. We hired him on a time / matterial basis. That was a scary way to do it, but he felt very trustworthy, and we talked to 4 of his previous clients who also did time and material and were very happy.

  • nycefarm_gw
    16 years ago

    Hire your own structural engineer who will sit on your GC. You should not rely on inspectors to verify the quality of your build. They only have to adhere to minimum building standards...
    It may well be cheaper than having your brand new house fall down around your ears.

  • fredotn
    16 years ago

    "I know I've heard that contractors are almost all a rotten bunch but is it usually this bad?"

    I take issue with this statement. Just because you didn't do the due diligence to hire a proper builder, that gives you no right to slander the trade as a whole. If you have a problem, perhaps it's source is in your mirror each morning.

  • sierraeast
    16 years ago

    It's just something that the poster heard and remarked on, but as they say, you cant always believe what you hear.Similar with doctors and lawyers, i'll always believe there are way more decent builders than not. It's the few bad builders,doctors,lawyers that ruin the good reputation that the majority have worked hard to maintain.The poster has one of those few builders and her experience with said builder shouldn't paint the picture for all builders in general.

  • carterinms
    16 years ago

    If all the good subs work for your GC, then why are you having a problem with quality?

    Also, what does "GC is in bed with the bank" mean? Is he married to the owner? Does he have an account at the bank? Did you get your loan based on using that particular GC?

    I was worried that it might be hard to switch GC's in the middle of a project so we waited to fire our GC until we had found another one that was willing to take on our project. We were lucky that our ICF supplier found us the new GC and made sure they knew that the problems with the old GC were not our fault.

  • too_picky
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I apologize for the broad generalization about contractors being bad. I have only heard of two good contractors from people I've talked with (and they are not in this region) but I'm sure that there are many out there. If I could afford to fly in a good GC at this point I would do it, but that isn't reasonable or possible. We did a thorough due diligence before hiring our GC and looking back on it I would do it the same way again. There really was nothing that could have alerted us to the problems we're having now. We have not had many problems with the quality of the sub's work. They have generally done a great job, and the only issues have been with the lack of supervision/guidance to the subs from the GC. The project manager has not been onsite enough to provide a reasonable amount of direction the the subs. Key example, Monday morning, three different sub crews starting on the project for the first time, no project manager anywhere to be found. Lots of very technical questions for us that we can't properly answer, and can only refer them to the absent project manager, who doesn't show up until late that afternoon, and who has a cell phone voicemail that is full so you can't even leave a message. The GC has just hired someone away from the bank to manage all of his financials. Yes he has a very large accout at the bank and runs all of his business through the bank bringing them dozens of new customers/account holders a year. I feel like the bank will be looking out for his best interest with ours as a secondary priority, and that the unoffical lines of communication between the former bank employee and our loan officer could cause problems for us as well. What I'm looking for here are recommendations for things we can do and approaches we can take to help manage a bad situation. I appreciate the recommendation for a structural engineer, and we are considering hiring one to check out the construction so far. Besides a lawyer, and an inspector, what other steps should we be taking?

  • liketolearn
    16 years ago

    Whether you have a problem or not it is a good idea to take lots of pictures. If you run into a problem during or after the build you will be glad to have those pictures. And the pictures will show a progressive timeline of what has happened on your build.

    I recommend before building a new house to get a digital camera. It can be a pretty basic camera what's important is that it takes clear pictures. I find that the zoom is helpful too. I purchased a larger memory card so I can take 200+ pictures at a time without running out of "film". The digital cameras allow you to take unlimited pictures at no cost.

    I have been taking pictures since we purchased the land and long before we started building. I took lots more when we started building the house. I will go through the house one room at a time taking multiple pictures from every direction. I like to take a wide photo of a room and then close-ups of each wall, the ceiling, mechanicals, and any special feature. Date and label the pictures so you can identify them later. And I do this repeatedly through out the build so we can see the room at all different stages. The dates help to provide me with a timeline. Photograph the subs working as it's a good way to timeline when the work was done and who did the work.

    We have LOTS of pictures and refer to them often. If you have problems with something in the house later or a subcontractor it's a good way to document the problems that are or have occurred. You can post the pictures online if there is a problem or something that you need help with. A picture can often show something much better than words can explain it.

    And, if your running into problems then keep a written log showing a timeline of everything that is said and happens. Put as much detail in the log as you can.

  • housecrazy1970
    16 years ago

    perhaps a letter from an attorney outlining the concerns you have, the remedies you expect, and the measures you would like to seen put in effect to ensure there are no further problems ie structural engineer, would help. If he knows that you are documenting the mistakes and intend to seek remedy for these problems he will be more likely to be diligent and not allow further errors.
    Good luck

  • dumaspup
    16 years ago

    I would not be worried about the bank. Yes they know and deal with him but you are there customer also. They will tell you that it is not a good idea to change GC's in the middle of your project. But this must be done for the good of the house that they are holding the note on. Don't worry about the subs the new GC will have no trouble filling there shoes.By the sounds most of the ones you have had so far need to go anyways. IE an electrician that would install with out a dried in house should go, a dry waller that would hang and tape with out a roof yup he sucks too. If your putting insulation in a house with out it being dried in you probably are not such a good sub and should be replaced.
    So i would have to sum it up as not only doers your GC suck but his subs do as well. They are not the only game in town.

  • FatHen
    16 years ago

    In the OP's defense, just because one got taken, does not mean one didn't do their due diligence. People don't always realize how non-public certain records really are until they have their own problems. For example, some BBB's keep complaints under wraps, only changing a "rating" to unsatisfactory after some undetermined number of complaints is filed in a 3 yr. period. When complaints scroll off that 3 yr mark the rating can return to satisfactory, even if severe problems exist.

    Same for state agencies--they often give the illusion to consumers that you can call and find out about any/all complaints when in fact that's not necessarily true. There was a builder in PA not long ago who had been literally shielded by the home builders association from his criminal record. The BBB there didn't consider or report that either. Court records are only useful if, A) the court site has a good search engine which they don't always, and B) the builder didn't keep complaints out of court with arbitration clauses that prevent suing. Not all court records are online, meaning a person would have to travel to jurisdictions the builder built in and personally search records. I have used both online and in person searches and found the following problems may prevent people from finding out about lawsuits:

    Court desk clerk retrieves the records and doesnt' find them all.

    Again, online search engines for court sites can be poor.

    Not everyone's online or is good at internet research. Many older people do not even use a computer. Do they "deserve" to get taken?

    Like Susiesnowflake here, I did diligent research and it was not my first new house either. I still got taken. Even after all the complaints I filed our state didn't report any of them to consumers who called to inquire. Only when the builder stopped paying his BBB dues did the BBB reflect complaints, which have now scrolled off their radar anyway.

    I also know of a builder in my state who built houses for seniors on 4 feet of uncompacted fill dirt with the predictable foundation failure as a result. NO public record anywhere of this disaster, and the builder is "highly regarded" all over the state. Most of the owners don't have the energy or resources to fight it.

    Due dilegence is only as good as the availability of the records you seek. It would do home buyers much more good to learn proper and improper construction when they see it, then they can adequately assess the builder's work in all stages of progress on OTHER houses, before signing a contract in the first place. Research alone is not enough. And getting taken does not mean a buyer didn't research their builder.