No! You are TKO! It's hopeless! :)

Nope, we all do that in our renovations :)

The key is to keep doing it on paper, so you can see the figures and stay on budget. It's very easy to start upgrading everything.

Know where you can/want to put your money, and where you don't need to put your money. And if you upgrade one thing, try to get another thing cheaper.

And remember that upgraded materials are not necessarily better. Sometimes they are higher maintenance, or become so personal in taste that you have a hard time selling the house or the new owners rip it all out and start over.

And in this age of depressed economy, hard to get mortgages, and fewer qualified buyers, that's something to think about.

That's the reason for the saying to double your budget for time and money. :-)

Depends. Is your budget a limit for what you can realisticlly spend or a target for what you want to spend? If it's the first, then stick to the paper nad make it come in below that figure -- there will be some unexpected additions. It its the later, then you have to decide whether it is worth it to you to spend more -- looking both at your use and enjoyment for as long as you plan to stay in the home and for what you could get back if you had to sell the house if something happened. Would you suffer if you didn't get all your money back? Are these things that you will really care about if you turn off your computer and don't come back here again? Or are you keeping up with the TKOs?

If you want a reality check, look here and elsewhere for what folks can do with budgets of $10-20K or less.

I have to tell you, it's the dreaded TKO disease for sure. I just finished (almost) and didn't plan ANY of it. I just needed one appliance replaced, almost a year ago. It still hasn't been completely installed!! I'd never even heard of some of the stuff on this Forum. Now I even have some of it in my kitchen!!

As others have said, stick to your budget, but yes, add a large overage into the budget for sure. That will definitely happen, especially if you keep reading here.

Best Wishes -

gng

slippery slope, i tell'ya :)
and the forum members dont help either :)

we all have to have dovetails, real wood, real stone, all stainless, softclose, selfclose, counterdepth and allother bells and whistles...

I 'one-upped' my garage doors to carriage style forgoing a better carpeting since it's only in the bedrooms anyway. I didn't do top-of-the-line Wolfe,or other pricey appliances(but am getting a counter depth fridge), as I decided I didn't want to out price myself in the neighborhood.

What I *will* have is granite, SS, real stone/brick exterior, covered stone patio w/ceiling fan, stone fireplace, upgraded glazed cabs,with one wall of upgraded stain, glass in cabs, hand-scraped floors in all public spaces, large tile on the diagonal in bathrooms/laundry room, furniture style sinks/granite tops, all ORB plumbing fixtures, builders grade light fixtures will be upgraded, as well as upgrading ceramic tile foyer to marble. I may have left out a few smaller items, but am very happy, so far, with the choices i've made.

Make provisions for the spendy things in your plan & decide that you can wait for great deals or put them on your Christmas/ Birthday/ Mothers Day list. For example, you can stub the plumbing in for the pot filler, leave a hole in the cabinets for the warming drawer, decide to use the old dishwasher until it dies...

We had a policy that if we were gonna splurge on one thing, we had to find something to skimp on to make up the cost. If we couldn't find a skimp, we had to skip the splurge.

Alku has your cure, Fern4; it's a good way also to skip that sick feeling at the end when the fun shopping part's over.

I agree with Alku. You need to find some balance among what you want, what you need and what you can afford.

One thing to consider is where you are in the process. Are you in the planning stage and have time to do some research and shopping? Or are you at the end stage and have to get it now?

I had everthing but the bathrooms remodeled. Early on, I decided on plumbing fixtures and was able to shop them out online. Ditto built-in appliances for the wet bar (fridge, ice maker and wine captain) and the dishwasher. The guest room became a stock room. I was also able to get some reasonably good prices on the cooktop and range hood (both Monogram) and the CD fridge and wall ovens (KitchenAid) by doing a bit of legwork at local stores and, yes, shopping online. I think the lesson here is that if you can decide what you want early on, then you have time to get it at a good price.

The other place I saved money was in flooring. I had wanted through-body porcelain in the kitchen and wood in the rest of the house. My GC found some good looking glazed porcelain at a reasonable price, so I went with that. I had an idea for what I wanted in wood flooring and went to a store that carried that line. The salesman showed me a different brand which was nearly identical and less expensive. I went with that, too, and saved a bundle of money.

I did something similar with granite selection. I picked out a few samples at a yard and then asked about pricing. They wouldn't tell me the prices of the slabs, but they did tell me the relative prices. One sample was dubbed "very expensive" compared to the others. I set that one aside and didn't consider it further.

Likewise, I shopped out lighting, ceiling fans (splurged for the master bedroom, went cheap everywhere else), cabinet hardware, door handles, etc.

Best of luck.

Mooring girl, do you mean you started buying the various fixtures and appliances while you were still in the planning stage? How did this work out (did you wind up with a lot of extras or things that weren't working but were out of warranty or the store's return policy)?

sarschlos,

Yes I did. I purchased two sinks, two faucets, disposal, water filter, water chiller, water heater (instahot), dishwasher, bar fridge, icemaker, wine captain and range hood (island mount) before plans were finalized. The only thing I didn't use was the range hood (FF Moon Crystal, now very dusty). It's in the garage, and one of these days I'll get around to selling it.

The only problem puppy is the dishwasher. It has an intermittent problem that I've solved by giving it three glasses of water before I start it up. Even with two service calls which didn't solve anything, I'm still ahead of the game.

If you think about it, the only risk with shopping early is with the major $$$ appliances. I did wait to purchase those until they were about to be installed. But I did my shopping early to determine the lowest priced vendors.

Regarding the other stuff, well, there isn't much that can go wrong with a sink. What's to lose?

You could change your plans. We almost had a sink and some appliances before we locked in our plans, and everyone of them would have changed. I'm really glad that didn't happen.

I've just noticed a new thing in here with this thread. 2 years ago I was in the middle of my renovation, the economy was booming, and I was hanging out in here all the time. Everyone talked about wonderful upgrades. We all had to the have newest and best.

Is it me, or is there a renewed sense of reality? When questions like this were posed, the majority of answers were "it's your dream kitchen, do whatever the heck you want to do, it's your right to have it all, you deserve it."

Of course, I'm generalizing, but the tone seems to have shifted slightly in THS. Which I think is a good thing...I was preaching fiscal responsibility in home/kitchen renovations back then and felt like I was one of a few. When your partner is a family lawyer and you see/hear first hand the results of the financial stress home renovations cause on marriages, you learn to be cautious and spend only what you can afford.

lascatx, you are correct about changing plans throwing a wrench into the works. Thus I have a spare range hood. But once you know what you want, you can start shopping.

I spent a lot of time researching my choices, both online and in various stores. I had brochures, spec sheets, samples, hand written notes, you name it. I did all kinds of layouts online (idclic.net) so I could see how everything would look. Now I did get ahead of myself with the range hood, no doubt about it. A number of things -- but not the bar -- did change during the design process. It goes with the territory. But overall, I've been quite pleased my choices.

Another advantage to shopping ahead is that you get a better idea of how everything fits together. You can bet there were no surprises regarding whether or not the sink would fit into the base cabinet. Either one of them for that matter.

I wouldn't recommend such a plan to someone who is unsure about what he or she wants. Once you make a decision, research prices, research options and get all the information you can.

Interesting point, brunosonio. I sense the same thing, at least a little bit. It has to do with the credit crunch (which I think is still in process) -- lots of people are seeing now that there are highs and lows, and one ought to plan for and deal with the lows. We all need to figure out if we're saving enough for retirement/kids' college and then determine our remodeling budgets, eh?

I think the important thing is to be realistic if you can afford the upgrades or renovation. Of course, one can always put it on credit or a home equity line, but do you really want to be paying it off for the next 20-30 years, or hope that your home's value holds or increases by the time you sell?

I think we all have better things to do in our retirements than continue to pay off a kitchen renovation we did 10-20 years ago. But it's hard to realize that when you are in the middle of it all, and tempted to splurge right and left.

If I've learned anything about splurges, this thread is a real eye-opener. This is about a bathroom but the same concept applies to any project. Read it before your splurge list grows too long...

Here is a link that might be useful: finished bathroom.....if I could do it over

We had to really sit down and decide on what we needed and what we wanted and find a healthy balance. We got nice appliances (Kenmore Elite, GE Cafe, etc.) but not the greatest appliances (Wolf, etc.). We got a nice granite countertop (cambrian black antique, but we could have gotten a much more expensive contertop). Relatively hard choices but easier on my pocketbook and it still looks real nice.

The real splurge that we decided on was the 36" single bowl copper sink. I have loved it and it is probably my favorite thing in the whole kitchen.

I did learn though that if you give in to every splurge, the costs would go absolutely crazy and you begin to see how a kitchen budget could spiral well above $80K.

That's a good question!

As my DH says when he reads over my shoulder and sees lots of advice, like- rip it out and start with a new contractor... don't accept that- cut your losses and get what you REALLY want..., " it's easy for them to say, it's not THEIR money". Our way of affording our splurges was to do most of the reno ourselves. You won't believe how many people said- "I'd never drywall myself, why don't you pay someone to paint... DIY cabinet installation!!!???, even the cabinet guys questioned us at first (till they met my husband, and then came out and saw his work- then NO more questions)

BEFORE you start the process, I think it's important to set your budget. Obviously you don't begin with the maximum you can afford, cuz you need to allow for unforseens, cost overruns, etc. But, in most cases, we are not doing this every day, so we're not familiar with everything out there before we begin- so in actuality, it is HARD to set the budget, and then price out what you want. I think this is how people get into trouble. Regardless of how nice and desirable and even practical something is, if you don't have the money for it (in your budget), something has to give- retirement savings, vacation plans, etc. or you'll have to borrow. Period- end of story... the money has to come from somewhere. If you balance each splurge with an equal cut-back that will automatically stop you from splurging yourself into regret or worse, financial trouble.

It's not so much fun, if that 'must have' item ends up wrenching your gut, or disturbing your sleep. I'm a pretty bad 'impulse shopper'. When I start spending, I can go on a roll- so best thing for me, is to stay out of the stores, and I've learned to try and 'sleep on it'. If it's still there, or I still want it a day or two later, then it's usually OK.

If you have the money and feel you have to have certain things, then go for it, but if you are going to have regrets later and begin to wonder about your decisions, I'd take a few days away from here and really think of what you need vs the "gotta haves".

Always in the back of my mind was the fact that I love taking small trips during the year and a biggie in summer (4 weeks abroad), so whatever I thought I had to have would change into a, "do I really need this?"

Have fun, but be realistic and everything should be fine.

Cheers,

Mari

I completely agree with raehelen. if those must have items are keeping you awake at night then it's not a good thing at all. I see a lot of "keeping up with the joneses" going on in many threads. People who would have never even known about some of these high end items all of a sudden HAVE to have them and they would have been perfectly happy without.

I also see a lot of people here with a lot of money to spend, and by all means, if you are not crunched and you want to spend it you should be able to. Heck, I am a purse fiend and I love my purses so I spend money on them. My right to do so.

But the people I worry about are the ones who really seem like they are breaking their budget just to keep up and do in their houses what they perceive that "everyone else is doing". That credit card bill is going to come due some day and when all the fun and excitement are over you're left with a lot of bills. The mac and cheese tastes exactly the same coming off a Wolf or Aga as it does off a GE. I looked at medicine cabinets for the bath that were thousands of dollars. WHY?? They certainly didn't make me look 15 years younger haha...but everyone on the bath forum is getting them.

In then end, a new kitchen isn't going to transform your life. It's only frosting.

Well said buffetgirl. I lust after granite and other goodies and really want them in my next kitchen (still in dream phase at this point). But then I do try to remind myself that really, laminate performs **just fine** as a countertop material. I still want granite, and probably will buy it, but I find it "grounding" to remind myself that these are just things. There are millions of people in the world who don't even have what we'd call kitchens and yet I spend (probably ridiculous) amounts of time pondering all the bells and whistles that can go into a kitchen. I totally agree with those who say, if you have the money, get what you want. What's sad is that probably a lot of people hurt themselves financially over material things that are not, as a practical matter, much better than much cheaper, functional materials. Off to count blessings now....

When we actually broke ground on the footers on our retirement home that we GC'd, is when I started shopping online and around town for 'stuffs'. For my kitchen only for this example, I bought my stove, DW, advantium, trash compactor from the same ebay dealer and all with a four year warranty on appliances. THIS is important, because I bought my top of the line 48" Pro Thermador Range for $3K.

I told the dealer that I wasn't too proud for scratch and dent and asked if he ever had any 'deals on appliances'? He told me about the range that had been dented on the side by FedX. I did have some minor problems with the range that had nothing to do with the FedX dent. At the end of the day, not beknownst by me at the time, but I was told that my range could not be fixed and that Thermador wasn't making the replacement part, so two burners weren't working. Ended up receiving $9,300 from the service contract company to buy out the remainding value of my range. The "problem" was that I had to keep the range and dispose of it myself. I called another guy to come look at the range that was not a 'contract' employee of the service contract company and he said the first guy was wrong and misdiagnosed the problem. How do we know? Because he ordered the part and it didn't fix the problem. He had NO PROBLEM finding this 'elusive' part. My guy is coming today to put the part it the range to fix it. I figured to try to fix it with someone else or sell it. It's great other than the two burners, which by the way, one of the burners 'not' working, decided to work the other day. ;] Go figure.

Sorry for digressing...I'm just a proponent of extended warranties.

I bought all of my appliances, lights, sink, disposal, faucet online for about $8K or less for my kitchen. These same appliances would have cost me in the ball park of $25,000. Figure I got $9,300 back AND it's only going to cost less than $250 to fix my range, and I'm to the good! And that's even taking into account that I did make ONE mistake.

My mistake: I bought two "new U Lines" from a bad ebay dealer in our town that has the partial name of 'atlantic' in their ebay name. These units were new and I was told they came with a warranty. When one compressor stopped working, I called for service. ULine laughed because THESE UNITS WERE 14 YEARS OLD AND THE FREON IS NO LONGER LEGAL THAT WAS USED IN THESE SYSTEMS.

I ended up having to just buy a new undercounter fridge, but bought it from the guy I got my range from. This time I know I bought a 4 year extended warranty AND I know the manufaturing date was less than 2 years from the date of purchase. So, you CAN TRUST the seller 'saving-U-money' on eBay. His store is called Buy Appliances, maybe with a hyphen, too. Not sure. It's a 'tire' store out of Alabama. They are GREAT.

FWIW: I stored all of my appliances and purchases in my garage. I called many eBay dealers directly. EX: my lighting for my home. My lighting budget was $16K. (for over 6,000 sf under roof). I got ALL of my interior lights and fans for about $4,500, including shipping, no tax. He put everythign on a pallet and it only cost $165 to ship. I bought from Steve at SeaGull Lighting and he sells on eBay. I cut out the middleman.

You can make deals online. My pro Franke sink, single basin, 16 gauge ran about $600 with shipping. It cost over $1,800 locally plus tax. OH>>>MY PLUMBING! My DH just wanted to go to HD for plumbing. UNTIL I TOOK HIM SHOPPING. He did not want to hold up the plumber a day or two waiting on a shipment. HE CHANGED HIS MIND ASAP once he saw how much what I was paying online Vs what it cost in the stores.

Just move your cars out of your garage for a few months and think about all of the money you're going to save. Hope this helps.

The whole thing is keeping me awake! I lurch from focusing (OK, sometimes obsessing about) on countertops for several days to lighting. Sometimes I'm not even sure what my taste is anymore because there are so many choices! But my biggest problem is that we haven't got the bid with all of the details and "the bottom line" yet. We already know that for work outside the kitchen, we'll be DIY because that's the only way we can afford this project. And that's OK. And, for me, Monogram GE stove and ovens have felt like a splurge -- and I already bought them on-line from US-Appliance.com which was way cheaper than buying them locally although -- even though I know from reading here that we could have spent a ton more money on appliances. I guess it's all relative to one's budget and life choices.

My biggest problem, my most tempting and justifiable splurge, is the countertop. I have never been interested in granite and I frankly didn't know about soapstone until I got here. Now I'm totally sold. I have no idea how much it will cost yet (the sooner I resolve that issue the sooner I can make tradeoff choices or forego the splurge!). But my justification is that this kitchen is supposed to last at least 40 years. And if we put in a countertop that doesn't hold up and look good as it ages, we'll be sorry down the line. Because either it will look awful or we'll have to rip it out (and the backsplash). So my rationale goes....and there's nothing like a good rationale to justify a splurge!

Anyway, we do have a set budget and my anxiety is not having the bid yet where I can sit down and look at what we have to trade off.