I guess your original thread was lost as part of the site problems?

Anyway, depending on how you feel about "open" plans, and depending on structural/budget issues, I'd consider opening up all or part of the wall between the kitchen and the dining room, or between the kitchen and the family room. You could continue to have base cabinets and counters there, they'd simply become accessible from the other room as well, and there would be the possibility of counter seating. The main reason I suggest looking into this, is because the existing kitchen is quite narrow, and might feel rather constricted.

Luckily, I still had Firefox open so I didn't lose the hours of work I put into it...so here's my reply...again!

Ideally, kitchen work flows from Refrigerator/Pantry --> Sink --> Range. However, some common sense does have to be present in that you don't want the refrigerator too far away from the range if you can help it. For example, if you have a refrigerator + 36" counter + 36" sink + 24" DW + 12" cabinet + range...that's probably over 9'...but you can usually do better than that. You also want to be careful where things like the DW are placed...you don't want it in the Prep Zone or in the direct path b/w the range & sink or refrigerator & sink. So, with these comments in mind...

First a question...do you need the eating area in the kitchen? You mention a DR...would you be willing to give up seating in the kitchen for a spacious work area? If so, a couple of the plans below will give you that. If not, well I did some w/seating as well.

I know you put appliances in specific locations, but if you're open to other ideas, how about something like the first two?

They both maximize counterspace where you really need it...between the range & sink for prepping. While they both move the sink out from directly under the window, the still leave the sink very near the window. Since most people spend 70% of their time prepping and only 20% cleaning up, a prep space in front of the window seems like a nice setup.

In one case, I added a corner pantry with 12" deep shelves & 15" deep shelves. Most people find that 12" to 15" deep shelves are deep enough and that 18" or deeper are too deep...things get lost. Myself, I have a corner step-in pantry similar to what I put in for you in Layout #1. All my small appliances except my toaster oven fit on the 12" shelves. The 15" shelves provide deeper storage "just in case"...it turned out my potato bins are 15" deep...so it was perfect! [Drywalled pantries are usually less expensive, btw, than pantry cabinets.]

In the second layout, I added 5 feet of 18" deep pantry cabinets instead. With an 18" deep pantry cabinet, you have approx 16" to 17" deep shelves inside (account for front & back wall depths).

In the third layout, there's a 33" pantry cabinet. (More on the third layout later.)

This gives you 3 options for a pantry.

Here are the first two layouts that are different than what you specified...note how open the kitchen is with these layouts and how much counter & cabinet storage you have.

Layout #1

Layout #2

Layout #1A (Layout #1 w/an eating area)

This next one has a small eating area...basically, room for two. It allows you to have a little more room for counters/cabinets than the full-size eating area. (It also shows you more options for seating in the kitchen.)

Layout #1B (Layout #1 with small eating area)

Layout #3 tries to give you the appliance arrangement you specified while also giving you some decent work space. However, notice how the refrigerator/pantry wall, especially, is "heavy". You come very close to creating a "black hole" corner b/c of the bulk of the refrigerator so close to the window wall.

The other issue is that the DW is in the path b/w the sink & range...which is also the space that's most logical for prepping.

This first one has the small eating area. It allows you to have a little more room for counters/cabinets than a full-size eating area.

Layout #3

Layout #3A Full eating area (like in Layout #1A)

...

Which is my favorite? Layout #1. I think it has the best of everything...lots of pantry storage + lots of cabinet & counter space and better balanced with respect to counter space than the others. If some seating is a must, then Layout #1B.

Be sure to budget $$$ to bring whatever is needed up to current code - inspectors are VERY STRICT here in the Bay Area. It's your responsibility to pull the necessary permits. First you do the research and design work, then go to the county dept. with good drawings.

Depending on where you live, permits can be expensive. Here in Alameda Cty they are a percentage of the total project cost - not insignificant. The permit has a 'shelf life', I believe - it isn't good forever.

Hey Guys,

Yea my original post was lost and I decided not to save what I wrote :p I thought I made some sort of mistake and it was deleted at first!

Here's a link with more detail as to how the kitchen is in respect to other rooms.

Anyways so far great info. It's totally led us to rethink what we can/should do.

johnliu: we thought about taking down a wall, but the living room wall is so big and half of the wall leading to the family room is used by the garage. Also we imagine it'd cost more $$$ to open it up.

buehl: Wow! Thanks so much for taking the time to show up some alternatives. You made some great points and we rethought our initial layout. It's just the two of us right now so we'd prefer to keep the dining area in the kitchen so we think we really like your 1b layout.

We considered layout 1, but we think the kitchen would feel even more closed in if we closed up the half wall to put the pantry there.

jkom51: Thanks for the info about the permits. We're over in santa clara county and while the website has a lot of great info there's not a lot of direction as to where to start. We'll be sure to try and get some solid plans before we head over to see what permits we need.

We met with a lowe's KD today, but seeing these posts makes me think she'll have to redraw/requote what we got today.

Any thoughts on the soffits? In meeting with the lowe's rep she mentioned that if we kept them some of the cabinets would further out than the soffits.

Anyways, keep any more thoughts coming, we appreciate it and will try and keep you guys posted as far as what we do.

Thanks!

Hi Deekay!

I grew up in west San Jose and lived in Santa Clara for 10 years before moving over to the coast!

Do you live in the city of Santa Clara, or one of the other cities or out in the unincorporated part of the county? That will make a huge difference in your permits. County level is not as strict as city will be. I would also see if you can find online the code requirements for your house before solidifying your plans. It is amazing how one little change can ripple thru a design.

Good Luck!

{{gwi:1989710}}

Thoughts about this and that...

You might consider induction as a lower cost alternative to bringing in gas. It has most of the advantages of gas - quick reaction times for example and can do a lot of tasks more rapidly.

Above places emphasis on cooking and gear. If you want more of a connection to the family room, you could recreate the half wall on the ref side instead and convert part of that counter area into a rounder place for two stools. This would also provide a deeper area for larger baking tasks. Or you can look into opening the kitchen to the family room by removing the entire wall between them and place some stools on the family room side (bar height).

If this is your first house and you haven't lived in it for a year, my best advice is to wait before you actually do anything about the kitchen. Your view of the space and what you want will clarify.

It might be helpful to have a list of goals with priorities attached. My own priority list became something like:
--- I need more prep counter
--- Dh needs a place to sit and work
--- The view from the back window is the point
--- Move the d--n refrigerator
--- Keep cooking stuff together

Some people like mission statements like
"My kitchen is an organized oasis surrounded by nature."

Either one gives you a way to rate choices by whether they contribute to your goals. Either will help you become analytical about how much very dark wood cabinets contribute to a "brighter" kitchen. They might, but it would need some work to figure it out.

National Kitchen and Bath Association has a set of design guidelines developed from the current national building code. They are almost in english. There are also many books - I enjoyed the motion minded kitchen by sam clark and some of the country living and house beautiful kitchen books. I got them out of the library.