Crazy the amount of time we spend agonizing over these choices, don't you think? I'm in much the same place as you, so I cannot recommend this over that, but I can tell you that in terms of the combi steam, the oven space is the same, whether you go with a 24" or 30". The Miele does have a trim kit which gets you to the 30" size. I remember thinking I liked the MIele water tank better, although I don't recall why.... maybe I thought it was bigger or easier to remove and replace. I think Miele has a plumbed version in the US, don't they? Then I found a discontinued Gaggenau, so I stopped looking. The Gaggenau I found is a plumbed model, but I think I could easily live with either. Also check your water line, I think the ovens need a larger line than the fridge does.

I also think the combi will take the place of the large oven most of the time, and read that one can cook a lot more than expected with an oven that size. I have also decided that I will ditch my microwave... or at least banish it from the kitchen. I've been using it less and less, and love the idea of the combi steam taking over much of the microwave's duties, and if I have to melt butter on the cooktop instead, I guess that's okay too.

Good luck on your decisions.

I have a nonplumbed combi, and refilling has never been a problem for me. On mine, you have to open the door to refill, but again that really isn't a problem for most cooking. If you open the door at full steam, at or below 212 F, it will take a little time to recharge. The only time that would be an inconvenience is if you are steaming shrimp, something where the steam time is pretty short, then you have to guess how much time to add. If you are doing something where the timing isn't as critical, not an issue. BTW, I have an Anova, and use that pretty regularly. Since I have the Bluestar range, I use the combi a lot for programed cooking. Tonight was pan seared salmon and baked sweet potatoes. Put the sweet potatoes in the combi a few hours before dinner, set the delayed start option, and the timer so they would be done before the salmon was ready to go into the combi to finish on convection bake.

We finished our reno 10 months ago and put in a Wolf combi-steam instead of a second oven. The combi-steam gets used at least 3x as often as the other oven, and while we kept the microwave, it is hidden in a cupboard under the counter and only gets occasional use.

Even though the combi-steam is smaller than the conventional oven, it holds a surprising amount of food. We spatchcocked a 15 lb. turkey at Thanksgiving and came out perfectly done. I re-heat leftovers in it several times a week and though it takes a little longer than a microwave, I don't have to keep checking to make sure it's not overdone and the quality of the food is definitely better. I just put the dish in the oven, check to make sure the water tank is full, then set it on "reheat" for about 15 minutes while I'm doing other things. I also processed my dill pickles in it this year. I put the filled jars in the oven, and set it on steam for 30 minutes. I usually do low-temperature pasteurization and this was much easier than the water bath. Oh, making bread in the steam oven is great too - we use it to get that crispy artisan crust.

The Wolf combi-steam is a re-branded oven manufactured by VZUG. The interior is stainless steel, no porcelain, so chipping is not a concern. It is 24" but has a trim kit to match the 30" wall oven.

I love this oven and am very happy we decided to go with it. We saved money by deciding against the warming drawer we were planning on, and it turns out, the combi-steam can be used that way as well by using the "keep warm" setting,

You know what's really crazy Sherri? The amount of time some people don't spend agonizing over these choices. It's so much money and we spend so much of our lives in the kitchen, yet some people's eyes glaze over at the mention of BTUs or work triangles. But, a little extra thought goes a long way.

Funny enough [because no one was hurt, no external damage, etc] the night I posted this, our 2nd and only functioning oven met its fiery demise. So, it lit the proverbial and literal fire under our butts to get the reno going.

I think I made the decision to get a combi as I was writing my post but your responses helped seal the deal. With all the other cooking apparatuses available, I don't think I'll miss the minimal amount of lost space in the oven. I will, however, appreciate the time I gain back from quick & convenient preheating and cooking during the week. Going back to the appliance store this week to check out the units and make the final decision. If I need to, I'll lose the BS oven and do a matching stack as it's in a highly visible area. But I've decided I really, really want a combi-steam. So, it's happening!

Thank you guys so much for your thoughtful feedback! I'll post an update of how it all shakes out. We also just finalized our layout so look for that new thread in the coming days.

Murmur, lol, I think there is a happy medium between the amount of time I spend on these decisions and a little extra thought....

I'm glad no one was hurt when your oven died, and good luck with your choices. I for one am super excited about my new purchases!!

Sounds like a great kitchen. For the Microwave, I LOVE the Miele Speed Oven. It is basically a real oven first and a Microwave second. We had that in our last kitchen along side a 36" DF Wolf, and the Miele was always the first choice of ovens unless it was not big enough. One other thing that I liked about it versus the 240v Avantium is that you can put it under the counter and it is easy to see the price difference when you look at the two. I know it is pricey, but we loved that one and are definitely making a space for another in our new house.

Good point about the shutoff valve kitchengirl. I know that my contractor installed a shutoff valve for the fridge, I'm putting it on my list to install one for the steam oven as well.

Kitchengirl, you can get a plumber to install a shut off valve, either in plain view, or hidden behind a frame of some sort. I considered the Gagg, because the controls were much more straight forward, but the cost was pretty high, and I could not justify the additional plumbing to get it plumbed. I have only had the machine stop once to remind me to refill the water, and I fill it much less often than I fill a pot with water for pasta, so to me it is no trouble at all to fill it every so often.

Mine has a shut off valve! I thought they all did. That's one of the things that we always used to discuss here: The placement of the valve in the neighboring cupboard.

Since mine is right by my patio door, I also had them run a capped hot water line. That way, if an outdoor kitchen is ever put in there, there will be hot water available.

I doubt the other BSH units will be getting a redesign so soon. I think they're based on older Gaggenau models.

barryv_gw & plllog, THANKS! I'm looking into the shutoff further!

plllog: interesting comment about the Thermador and Bosch steam-combis, but that would make sense. Without an update, they are rather small compared to their competitors whose tank is now on top, rather than on the side. Purcell Murray put out a video on YouTube for the Thermador, specifically addressing this "small" issue!

@murmur... Just curious, what did you end up with as far as your final list of kitchen appliances? I am in the same situation.

After about a year of planning and deliberation, here's the final line up!

• Bluestar 48" rangetop w 24" griddle
• Bluestar French door, new electric wall oven
• Wolf M Series combi-steam
• Wolf Warming drawer
• Kitchen-Aid 30" convection microwave
• 36" SubZero built-in french door
• 24" SZ beverage center
• 15" SZ Ice maker
• 24" Bosch Benchmark DW
• 18" Bosch 800 Series DW

How I decided on the Wolf combi-steam: I went to see both the Wolf and Miele units in person. I narrowed it down to those two based on Wolf's looks and Miele's plumbing. I knew that the Miele and Gagg were both plumbed but I didn't give enough weight to the fact that Miele doesn't have a drain. When I saw the Miele in person, I realized that emptying and cleaning the tray was really what I thought I was going to avoid by getting the plumbed unit but in fact that was not the case.

The Wolf doesn't have a broiler, but I've got one stacked above it in the BlueStar and am not bothered at the thought of moving from one oven to the other. I also have the Searzall + Blowtorch, so I won't be at a loss for browned, melted goodness.

The one thing I still long for is Miele's M touch operating system. The menus were so clear and thoughtfully designed. The Masterchef feature looked like a dream, for both an experienced cook like myself and for those who don't like to cook at all. Alas, I can't have it all. I'm sure I'll find my way with the Wolf.

The microwave was decided purely by looks. I had planned on buying a unit from one of the main manufacturers (Sharp or Panasonic) but the Kitchen-Aid was the best looking, by far, with the rest of the new pro-style appliances and their handles. I also really loved the button panel across the bottom, the fact that it still has a number pad (as opposed to a dial or the other newfangled styles), and that it has a pull door, as opposed to a push button (one of my inexplicable pet peeves.) There's also a popcorn addict in the house and we're very intrigued by their popcorn popping technology. Something about how it recognizes when it's done the same way we would, when the pops slow down to 1-2 seconds apart.

I have to tell you, it was so nice to write all of that without a tinge of doubt. I know I did as much research as I could, asked all the questions and am going to get the kitchen of my dreams. I hope you do too!

@murmurr Di you look at Miele 6805 XL combi steam or the older model? The plumb in version has a drain, and only need the water tray mainly for descaling. Inlet water comes into the tray, and is sucked out into steam generator. For comparison to a non-plumb version, 6805 has just one tray on the right hand side, and 6800 has two trays. One on the left hand side is a drain tray for 6800, for which it is a void in 6805.

For day to day operation, there will be some water left in the inlet tray which you can empty it every day as recommended or leave it in and empty it every now and then. M-touch is very easy to operate, I wholeheartedly agree.

I thought I had made my mind up on the Miele DGC6805XL combi steam oven. However, after reading the comments on this forum about the Miele DGC6805XL is hard to clean, I am skeptical now. Some posters suggested not to cook chicken, roast, etc. because of the grease and it is hard to clean up. That is scaring me away from the Miele and maybe to look at the Wolf combi steam oven.

@murmurr Any chance your project is now done and you would share some pictures? I'm very interested in how the stacking of the french door oven with the Wolf combo-steam worked out!