LoneJack, I like the Promix, too. I haven't seen blends with biofungicide and mycorrhizae. But I haven't looked lately since I had quite a bit left, too. I bought A LOT when Home Depot had a super clearance price a few years back. I'll keep the "improved" kind in mind when I run out. Mine has worked very well. I start lots of plants every year without any troubles.

Today, finally, I planted garlic...90 or so cloves. It's in amended soil, it's all mulched and set for the year. I planted about two or three weeks later than I would have liked, but at least it's in and before cold and rainy weather predicted to start tomorrow. I'm very thankful that my husband helped with soil prep and labels. I've battled a wrist injury much of the summer and it's still bothersome. Lately it seems much better, but gripping a pen or marker makes things sore again. So DH made the labels, and they are extremely neat and precise...it's easy to tell I didn't write them!

We also trimmed a few bushes and "planted" some trimming in big pots near the bird feeders to give nearby cover to our bird friends for the winter. We don't want hawks to prey on birds at our feeders.

itsmce, I've received emails about 2018 seed catalogs, but none have shown up in the mailbox. Isn't it fun to look through them in the winter? How about the rest of you? Any catalogs yet?

Naturegirl - no 2018 catalogs here yet but I did get one a few weeks ago from Filaree farms with their garlic offerings. I bought Siberian, Purple Glazer, and Martin's Heirloom from them a few years back. Right now I am only planning to order a few things from Johnny's and some sweet potato slips from Sandhill Preservation. I need to go thru my seeds and make sure I'm not running short on anything and do some germination tests on some older seeds.

I hope your wrist heals up completely over the winter. You can use it as an excuse not to shovel snow!

I just opened my bale of Promix last night and started 12 Muir lettuce for my winter indoor garden. The seeds are from 2016 so they should still be OK for 2018 at least but I sowed 3 per cell just in case. IME lettuce seed germination goes down hill pretty fast after 3 years. I'll start another batch of lettuce in about 4 weeks when I start harvesting this first batch.

my big book from Baker Creek arrived and I have spent hours going through it...... backwards and forewards. Now to actually read all the info.

Lettuce indoors sounds like a challenge I might want to try. Do you mist it frequently?

Beth - I only mist lettuce for about the first week and then I start bottom watering. Lettuce sprouts in 2-3 days for me and grows pretty fast after that. I grow them under my T8 grow lights (4 bulb shop lights).

ETA - It's very easy but I would stick to leaf lettuce types because heading lettuce like Romaines don't grow as fast nor will they really head up correctly like they will outside IME.

Jack, thanks for the HR instructions!

I've made the mistake of not adding enough water to the compost plenty of times. It really does have a big impact on the breakdown process.

I keep hearing the Promix is good stuff, but haven't tried it. I am obsessed with the Fort Vee mix from the Vermont Composting Company. I first saw it at the farm I volunteer at. They use it for all of their seedlings and like it for making soil blocks. The only problem is it's a little pricey and I can only find it online, making it even more pricey with shipping.

Jack, do you ever grow lettuce in the ground? I'm curious about flavor of growing under lights vs natural light. I'm growing herbs under light and I swear basil just doesn't taste the same grown indoors. I don't know if that's because of being in a container or watering habits or if it has anything to do with artificial lighting.

naturegirl, congrats on getting the garlic in! I think with this warm Fall, a lot of of people planted later. As long as you plant before the ground freezes, you're all good. I think I mulched my garlic a little too early. I think people normally wait until the ground just about freezes before mulching, then add it to keep the temps regulated and prevent frost-heaving. I'm sure they'll still be fine though. Haven't had problems the last 2 years. Hope the wrist feels better! You'll want it nice and healthy for the Spring!

Like beth, I also received my first 2018 seed catalog last night. It's from High Mowing Organic Seeds. I really don't use the catalogs, since I do all my seed shopping online, but it's still like giving a kid a candy magazine! Always fun to look through.

Anyone want to split some lettuce. I am thinking 500 packs of http://www.johnnyseeds.com/vegetables/lettuce/salanova-green-butter-pelleted-lettuce-seed-3056JP.html?cgid=lettuce

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/vegetables/lettuce/salanova-red-butter-pelleted-lettuce-seed-3057JP.html?cgid=lettuce

and

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/vegetables/lettuce/salanova-green-sweet-crisp-pelleted-lettuce-seed-3054JP.html?cgid=lettuce

I am looking to do this with 3 to 4 people so that we can all save some money. It would be like getting 60% off.

LoneJack, you have a good memory. Yes, in January we had a 3 day cold spell which stayed between 20 and 32 deg. Normally when we get these low temps it will warm up above freezing during the daytime and before dropping again over night. Not this time. I lost about 75% of my brassicas.

Chris, thanks.

Broc and cauliflower are my favorites. I share with relatives and friends. My main outlet is a battered womens shelter run by a group of nuns.

The only “trick” might be planting hybrid cultivars which are best suited for our gulf coast region. ....Our local garden center purchases seeds in bulk and repacks them for sale to local gardeners.

Chris - Are you going to try making some HR this year? I think you should give it a go! If your HR has been growing for a few years without any harvest there might be some very large roots down there that are woody. I'd avoid using those for making HR and only use the roots that are about 1" or less in diameter.

Yes I grow lettuce in the ground both spring and fall although I haven't had good luck in the fall because we always seem to get a hot spell in late September that causes much of it to bolt right at the time it is heading up. I grow the Muir indoors because it does much better as a cut and come again variety. I no longer grow Muir outdoors because it has a tendency to suffer from bottom rot for me. I don't think the flavor and crispness of indoor lettuce is quite as good as outdoor but it is still quite good and get's me through the winter without having to buy much lettuce.

Steve - I assume you mean 500 seeds per pack? Wow, those pelleted lettuce seeds are pretty pricey, I can see why you want to split a larger order! I've never used pelleted lettuce seed before but I'm a big fan of pelleted carrot seed. I can see where pelleted lettuce would be great if one was direct seeding it. I start my lettuce indoors so I don't think it would be much of a benefit to me so I'll pass on your offer but thanks!

Grandad - Oh, I thought it was a flood that got your winter brassicas last year so I guess my memory wasn't all that great! That is very nice of you to share your harvest with the women's shelter...there used to be a church fairly close to me that had a Saturday food pantry that I would take my excess produce to but they closed the pantry a couple years ago. Too bad because I would have a lot more to share after expanding my garden. What broccoli and cauliflower cultivars do well for you down there? This fall I grew Early Dividend, Bay Meadows, and Arcadia broccoli and Snow Crown and Cheddar cauliflower and had a good crop. Still waiting on 2 of the cheddar heads to size up a little more.

@LoneJack That lettuce is super duper bolt resistant and can be trimmed down almost to its base 3 or 4 times in a season and it keeps coming back. I have followed "The Urban Farmer" on Youtube and that is what he uses for his lettuce mix. https://www.youtube.com/user/urbanfarmercstone/videos

This video is on his salad mix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoVgEZNv8fs

grandad, that's great of you to support a shelter! You'll have to share some of your harvest pics with us.

Steve, unfortunately I'm not much of a lettuce consumer. Though last year I wanted to give growing them a try, so I bought about 5 seed packets to grow for my cousin. Hope you can find some people to split the costs with!

Jack, I really should do something with the HR. I guess I could still do it while the ground isn't completely frozen yet. Thanks for the tip. There are most likely some woody roots in there, since this thing has really never been harvested. It's been in the ground at least 10 years I wanna say.

Steve - those Salanova varieties to look interesting and I may try some in the fall sometime to see how they do. I grow mostly Romaine types right now and still have quite a bit of seed from 2016 to use up before I'll try something new. Johnny's certainly is the place to buy lettuce seed with the dozens of varieties they offer.

Chris - yes, I would try to dig some of the HR up this weekend if you are going to try it. If might be hard enough if it has never been harvested.

I am off work until 11/27 so I may not be on here posting much if any until then. You guys will need to keep the thread alive without me. I plan to finish all of my harvesting (leeks, carrots, brussels sprouts, and cauliflower) while I am off and get all of the gardens cleaned up and put to rest for the winter. I have quite a bit of other things on my to-do list so it won't be much of a restful vacation but it will be a nice break from work work.

Everyone have a great Thanksgiving...I'm outa here!

Enjoy your vacation and have a nice Thanksgiving, Jack!

Well, we finally had our first frost. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I cooked a turkey my husband was given when he donated blood. It was seasoned with leeks and thyme from the garden...along with a few other non-garden herbs. We plan on having potatoes and carrots from the garden with our Thanksgiving feast...maybe beets, too, if I feel like cooking them. We'll probably add some pickles we canned and maybe some beans we froze. Too bad we don't grow sweet potatoes or cranberries, but we'll eat some of those, too, even if they are not home grown!

What garden produce are others using for Thanksgiving meals?

My main contribution to Thanksgiving Dinner ( besides the cooking) seems to always be pies. I love to grow different types of squash ( pumpkins). This year it was Jarrahdale and

Canadian crookneck
Both are sweet an tasty but I prefer the crookneck, It's a good size for a small family and delicious either as a veggie or as a pie/custard.

Jack's contribution is corn....he seems to specailze in that as I have no patience with the raccoons who vandalize the stuff.

Years ago when we lived on Kodiak, daughter and I used to go out and sharecrop the Cranberries that belonged to the bears. Tiny things but so delicious and a beautiful way to spend the afternoon. A special but of authenticity for Thanksgiving Dinner............ Happy Holidays to all regardless of what/where you are eating

On Sunday when I was mowing up leaves to add to my compost bin I was thrilled to discover that the temperature in the section where I had added grass/leaves the week before measured nearly 140 degrees. Magic is happening! I nearly filled that section with additional grass/leaves (mostly leaves) with the addition of a little nitrogen fertilizer along the way. I love a little bit of success!

I'm still babying along my broccoli plants...hoping to get good-sized heads. Getting closer all the time. Tonight's low is supposed to be down to 25-26. I need to get home now and harvest the biggest head before covering up the other plants. Not ready to lose them all and with the future overnight low temperatures well above freezing, I think it's worth covering them one more time.

Happy Thanksgiving!

My winter garden progress report via pictures:

Alcosa Cabbage. F1, smaller variety - petite cabbages for a petite garden. Also trying a couple of savoy and napa cabbages to see which I like best.

Fennel getting bigger, starting to see the bulb shape

Celery seems to like this cool weather

Sugar snap peas reaching for trellis, with lettuce below

Brussels Sprouts

Radishes almost ready

Swiss Chard

My broccoli plants survived the cold a couple days ago. I think it made it as low as 25, maybe even lower in the garden. When I covered the plants I did harvest one head. It was about 1/2 pound. Perfect for our dinner last night. I'm perplexed though about what these guys are. Anyone know?

Aphids? I thought they were only on the leaves, but when I cooked the broccoli I discovered that some of them had made it into the broccoli itself. Ewww! I picked out those that I saw and then just tried not to think about it as I ate. :-/

Here is a link when I search for aphids on broccoli - that's what it looks like to me.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+aphids+on+broccoli&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=C7V2ra4FmStLNM%253A%252C9AO3OjnZYQoa6M%252C_&usg=__tT11m9lmpEvUymh0N3RllLFbRkw%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihyMT38NXXAhWT-VQKHRE2AJ8Q9QEIKjAB#imgrc=C7V2ra4FmStLNM:

aphids.... I always soak all the broccoli, Br sprouts cauliflour etc in salty water to flush them out and kill the little pests. I quit trying to grow br sprouts because I never seemed to get rid of all the aphids.... good luck

itsmce: Back on Nov. 3 I had two posts in this thread about those awful aphids...mealy cabbage aphids or just cabbage aphids depending on what source you are looking at for info. I've had them mostly on Brussels Sprouts and kale (more on some varieties of kale than on others) If not to many are present, regular blasting with a strong stream of water from the hose can be effective. When I was gone for awhile, they got ahead of me and my hose spray and I ended up ripping them out....just too grossed out too many times. So far, they have only been a fall pest for me. I've never battled them on spring or summer brassicas.

Wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevicoryne_brassicae

Beth, your squash looks tasty. I haven't heard of the Canadian Crookneck. I'll have to watch for that variety. What did you grow when you were in Kodiak? I'm guessing it was a lot of cool weather crops.

Babushka cat: Your garden looks a lot like spring and early summer gardens around here. How nice that you can get a long season to grow those crops. We have to hope the weather doesn't get too warm too quickly when we grow some of them. How long can you do cut and come again with your lettuce? Does it bolt at all during Nov-March?

I hope everyone is having a Happy Thanksgiving. We just finished a lighter evening meal after a larger feast around noon. With supper we had mashed potatoes made with home grown Adirondack Blue potatoes. They tasted great, but I have trouble getting past the blue color when they are mashed. Looks wise, I prefer them thick sliced and oven roasted. Our broccoli at noon was store bought....and aphid free!

I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!

Babushka - your winter garden is looking great! I'm envious. All I have growing now are the garlic and some indoor lettuce that are still a couple weeks away from the first harvest.

Itsmce - congrats on getting your compost pile heated up to 140! It's pretty cool when a plan comes together.

We had some fresh picked carrots and green bean casserole made from frozen garden beans. I also roasted some of Brussels Sprouts with bacon, and a bit of maple syrup.

I got a lot of work done in the garden over my TG vacation. All three of the compost piles have been filled and 2 of them have been refilled after they dropped 1-2' after heating up. I still need to fill my 6' diameter leaf bin for a carbon source next summer.

All of my raised beds have been mulched with shredded leaves except the beds that had BS and leeks and my 3 new beds. I have filled 2 of the new beds and a little over 1/2 of the third.

Here are some pictures of the last of my harvest. My final harvest total ended up at 1033.75 lbs. !

Brussels sprouts before and after harvest.

These are some of the carrots that I blanched and froze. I ended up getting a little over 15 lbs. total and froze enough for 18 meals.

The last of the leeks. I froze all of these.

My 3 new garden beds with about 3" of soil and 1-2" of compost added.

@LoneJack - great pics and progress report - you were highly productive. Those Brussels Sprouts are gorgeous! And congrats on the +1000 pound 2017 harvest - AMAZING!!!

My first petite winter garden harvest is pictured below.

I have been running around collecting leaves in the neighborhood like crazy, with the goal of making a ton of compost for the garden. So far have gathered 35 big leaf bags, then on the way home repeated stops to local coffee shop for freebie coffee grounds to give the pile some heat. I shred them with my lawn mower 3 times, then mix in the grounds. It is work but the pile is building! The goal is to make enough compost for the veg garden next spring plus re-generate some new planting areas. Still need a ton more leaves.... trying to collect every day....

Thanks Babushka! Those are very pretty flowers and nice looking radishes too! Is that an Easter egg blend?

I do about the same with my leaves shredding wise. I have plenty to collect on my property so I don't need to gather them from my neighborhood. I think most of my neighbors either burn them or blow them into the woods. The only trees still holding leaves around here are the oaks. I've already collected most of the low hanging fruit in the open areas of my property so now I will have to work a little harder to collect more by blowing leaves out of the forest into areas where I can mow them up. I like to turn them into leaf powder for the compost piles but I don't worry much about shredding them fine if they are used for mulch.

@Lone Jack - yes Easter Egg blend. Waiting on white icicles, french breakfast and watermelon. Have you ever grown diacon radishes - do you recommend?

You are lucky that you do not need to travel far for leaves. It is a bit of a project for me. The neighbors have taken to calling me The Leaf Lady :)

Babushka - I've grown a daikon radish called Groundhog a few times as a fall cover crop to break up compacted soil and mine nutrients from the sub soil. I don't think Groundhog is really intended as a food crop but they are pretty tasty nevertheless. When still small (under 6") they are mild and good with a little ranch dressing. I think there are better tasting daikons available but I've never tried them.

@Lone Jack - thanks for info on radishes. Have another quick question for you. First time I am growing brussels sprouts. They are about 12-15" tall right now. Enjoying the cool air and rain. I have never grown them before - is there anything special I need to do? I have seen mention of trimming leaves and cutting off tops - not sure what this is in reference to? Appreciate any good guidance.

As you start to see the little sprouts forming above the leaf axles you can start removing the leaves to give the sprouts room to grow. The sprouts will start to form above the leaves at the bottom of the stalk first and then start moving up the stalk. I usually remove the lowest ~6 leaves a week starting at about 8 weeks from transplant. I think you have at least a month to go before you need to worry about it. Do keep them well fed with nitrogen.

I've only topped a few one time and I didn't notice any difference in sprout size compared to the plants I didn't top. I think this is more for people in short season areas to try to get maximum size before winter. In your area they should continue to grow right thru winter and into spring.

@Lone Jack - thanks, will keep an eye out for the little sprouts! Will have to check to see what kind of fert I have - any organic kinds you recommend? Can't believe I am growing BS - used to hate them as a kid but love them now! :)

Fish emulsion or blood meal would both provide the needed N but might also cause your fox friend to come digging in the garden looking for a snack. I use Urea myself which is not organic but is about the cheapest form of N you can find other than using recycled beer :-o.

I used to hate BS too until I tried some homegrown in the fall. I was able to freeze a few bags this year so we can have some for Christmas dinner.

@LoneJack - thanks again for all the super helpful info. Yes, will avoid the blood meal, have experienced animal digging in the past as well. Fish emulsion *fingers crossed* has worked, will try that as I have some already.... will let you know how it goes.

Have not seen my beloved garden foxes in a bit... hope they come back, they sure were cute!!! We do have a wonderful hoot owl hanging around right now, love the hoot hoot hoot noise. Can't tell which tree he/she is in.

I hope everyone had a safe, happy, and plentiful thanksgiving! I gave thanks to my family by bringing a bunch of jars of sauce, salsa, and hot sauce every where we went (four different houses). I had more than I think we could have reasonably gone through this year of each of those and it felt really good being able to share some of the bounty. I got plenty of comments on the hot sauces and I had to give an anonymous shout out to isgen for the idea on fermented sauce.

I was also able to shred a bunch of leaves from the yard this weekend. Got enough to cover all the raised beds. Still haven't gotten a good compost pile set up yet. Right now its more of a heap of dead plants. It will break down eventually but not as fast as if I were taking all the steps you all seem to be doing. Sometime I'll get there.

A couple photos of what I have going on in my 'garden' world.

Bonchi peppers are doing fantastic so far! They really love the southern exposure they get in my office windows.

Here they were on November 17th:

And here they are today:

Was able to spend some time cleaning up and organizing my 'brewery' - its the old laundry room downstairs that I have my beer brewing and wine making equipment setup. I was given an old stainless back bar so I put together an extremely makeshift (but sturdy) base for it. The plan will be to use this area for my plant starts in the spring and maybe even a couple winter indoor plantings too. I'll put the lights on chains so they can be raised up and out of the way when I need to use the counter space for more important things like bottling beer and wine :-). You can see I have a couple four foot lights already setup on the left. On the right will be at least two 8 foot T5 fixtures which are just sitting on the counter now. I'll get a better photo when its all set up.

Kevin - I've never heard of giving out gifts at Thanksgiving! I always give Salsa and pickles at Christmas. Your Bonchi peppers look like they are doing great. I like your brewery/plant starting setup. Can you run a propane burner down there or do you have to do that part outside? How many tomatoes are you planning to start this year?

I had to buy another 50' role of wire fencing last night so I would have enough to cover my new beds to keep the squirrels out and the leaf mulch in place. Luckily I still had enough left on a HD gift card to cover it without having to break out a credit card.

My 2018 garden plan is coming together pretty well. I think I have my spring planting layout finished and am working on the succession plans for the summer/fall plantings. I need to pickle peppers next year to replenish my stock so I need to make more room for those than I allocated this year. Sweet potatoes are also on my list to try next year.

Jack - I run a 220v electric brewing system that I built. It consists of electric water heater elements installed in old beer kegs. A PID control panel allows me to hold the temperatures needed during mash and raise the heat input for the boil kettle. Let’s just say Brewing was my obsession for a few years a while back.

Heres an old picture during the brewing madness. I now have sourced a third keg so the 'bling' factor is more lol.

As far as plans for next year goes, I haven’t done much. I will be doing my plant start charity sale again - it was a huge success so likely will be a little bigger this time. I sold somewhere around 300 plants last year. I guess I need to start working on a variety list so I can try to source seeds!

Kevin - very cool setup!! I was showing it to a couple guys at work that do a lot of home brewing and they were very impressed. They both use propane but one of them wants to switch over to electric now so he can brew in his basement.

That's a lot of tomato plants! How long will you be able to keep them under the lights before you run out of room and need to move them outside? I don't think I have ever started more than 50 and probably the same with peppers and I run out of room under my 24' of light space. I think I will be starting somewhere around 36 of each this year and planting out 8-10 tomatoes and maybe 16 peppers.

@Kevin - wow, that is quite the setup! I can see you have a variety of passions - super fun! Guessing your family must get a kick out of it!

I am trying my hand at hot composting, see link below that I am using for guidance. I am on day 3 of my first large shredded leaf pile - it is heating up! Using shredded leaves and free coffee grounds. Fingers crossed, looks like decent weather for the next two weeks - hope to complete massive leaf collection so I can get a lot more compost cooking!!!

https://deepgreenpermaculture.com/diy-instructions/hot-compost-composting-in-18-days/

@Babushka - Nice! I bet it will climb another 20 degrees by the weekend. I've never turned a pile as often as they say to on your link but I'm never in a big hurry to get finished compost either. I've also never had a hot pile end up with the same volume of finished compost as it was started with. It will be interesting to hear how this method works for you. Keep us posted and good luck!

Jack and Bubuska - Thanks! Yes I bounce around from hobby (obsession) to hobby (obsession) - usually there are only a couple that I can dedicate my geeking out time to at once.

Babuska - speaking of geeking out, nice Exothermic Reaction!

Jack - I'm sure your coworkers don't need my advice, but I'd tell them to go for it (electric brewing)! Building the control panel was one of the most fun (and at some times, most nerve-racking) projects I've done. Its all worth it when I can be brewing inside on a below zero temperature day (or in the summer when its above 90). Just make sure to treat the ventilation very seriously - boiling 10 gallons of wort can create a lot of steam! Also this goes without saying but treat the electrical side of things like it can kill you - because it can! I have a dedicated 220v GFCI that all my system runs through.

I'll be using those nice bulb crates again for keeping my plant starts together which allows me to move them in and out of the house pretty easily once it gets warmed up. I was able to get around 30 three inch pots in each crate. I'll therefore try to figure out a way to place at least 10 of those crates under the lights. One thing I am going to be doing this time around is try to stagger the plantings so they aren't all the same size at once. That should help with the amount of space I need I hope. We've also been toying with the idea of greenhouse - that would create a ton of extra space quickly!

@kevin - i can so relate.... i have several hobbies (obsessions) as well. time and money

limit me to just a couple obsessions at a time :). where did you get the bulb crates? I need to score some as well......

compost pile heating up!!!! i re-read the instructions and realized the volume of my pile was not as big as it should be so increased the size and it is cooking now! up 12 degrees! so much fun to learn about this stuff. mad scramble to collect tons of leaves while they are still falling here on the west coast. weather has improved so it will be leaf collecting madness! my neighbors must be seriously wondering why i keep coming home with carloads of what appears to be trash bags and i keep taking them to the back yard. they must think a new hoarder has moved in LOL.

All this talk of compost has me hitting up local coffee shops for their coffee grounds. Yesterday I stopped at 3. 2 of them said they'd save them for me. Stopped today and neither came through, but I spoke with a manager-type at one and I think tomorrow they'll have a stash for me. Fingers crossed.

I have been hitting up Peets and they just give me bags that have right then, no advance coordinating needed.

I probably should try to score some UCGs myself to add to my last pile. I used to collect them at work but people didn't cooperate very well. I have a few gallons of chicken manure to toss in there and I can mow up some fairly green grass as well so that may be enough greens. I need to top off my other 2 piles as well since they have settled about a foot since last weekend.

I still have 5 beds that I need to mulch and one of the new beds still needs about 4" more soil. We have a nice weekend ahead with highs in the 60s so I'd like to get it all done before the weather turns nasty next week.

My indoor Muir lettuce is starting to get some size to them. Another couple weeks and I should be able to start harvesting. I started another 1/2 dozen last Sunday which gives me 18 total.

The seed catalogs are starting to roll in. So far I have received Pinetree, Vermont Bean, and Totally Tomatoes. TT is the only one I have ever ordered from before. I like looking thru Johnny's the most.

@lonejack -how are you growing your lettuce - in small pots under lights?

@Babushka - here is a picture of the lettuce I grew last winter under lights. I start them in cell packs and then up pot them into 4" square pots when they are about 2 weeks old. I can start harvesting the outer leaves at 4-5 weeks from seeding and harvest for about 2 months before they get root bound. My that time I need the lights for my spring seedlings anyway.

Give it a try!

cool, thanks for the info! i have basil, sage and cilantro under lights. lettuce currently out in the garden but perhaps i need to consider this when we get freezing temps or can i just cover outside?

Lettuce is pretty hardy down to the mid 20s at least so I bet you can get it thru the winter in the Bay area without covering it at all.

Jack - you just gave me a reason to get my lights set up sooner rather than later. The wife will enjoy fresh cut salads again. Did you run a fan on them to keep the leaves vigor? I've found that indoor plants seem to get limp otherwise.

ETA - my indoor pepper plants are putting out flower buds! I think I've read somewhere they will typically abort them when transplanted. Pretty cool nonetheless.

Kevin - yes I run my fan 1 hour on 2 off 24/7 while I am growing anything under the lights.

Cool little pepper buds! Are you going to leave them on to see what happens? Better put a sign on them to warn your co-workers that picking and eating them may be detrimental to their health!

My office window faces due west so not much available sun until late in the day. I used to have a couple potted plants on the window sill but they didn't do very well there so I took them home and let my wife kill them with kindness.

Some nice updates on this thread. I've been very busy with orchids over here, but some radishes, carrots, and stuff are starting to grow. Any idea what would be eating my fava beans into the ground? Would it be a rat? Let me know your favorite rat traps. I'm getting really sick of this!

hey norm - the dec thread just got started, you might try re-posting your question there to be sure it gets seen.