This is the wall where we would be moving to stove to.

I think the stove is much too far from the sink. Imagine cutting up some vegetables and having to carry them across the room to the stove, or having to carrying a pot of spaghetti or rice across the room to the sink.

-- amateur

Excellent point. We just don’t know what else to do.

I'm no kitchen designer but I'd...

• Put the stove on the wall where the refrigerator, move the refrigerator to the wall where the stove is, and use a countertop or under-cabinet microwave OR
• Put the range in the peninsula and use a countertop or under-cabinet microwave OR
• Put a cooktop in the peninsula, a wall microwave + oven where the refrigerator is, and move the refrigerator to where the stove is.

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• I'd shrink the width of the peninsula (or make other adjustments) so I could put the dishwasher next to the sink. Not only is the dishwasher's location inconvenient (you have to turn 90 degress to take something from the sink and put it into the dishwasher) I think it's unsafe because you could fall over the open door when backing up from the sink.

Awesome ideas. Thank you. Moving the dishwasher is however really complicated with rerouting plumbing and drilling the floor ☹️

I didn't notice that the dishwasher was to stay where it is.

@JuneKnow how about the plumbing part?

I agree with you that our idea is not good. We currently have no vent and we would need to build that anyway. Are you suggesting that we swap the location of the DW with the range?

Are you up for replacing the window in the current breakfast area, and bringing it above counter height? That would allow you to run cabinetry down that wall and recapture some of the storage. It seems like it would open up your options.

You can leave the range in the peninsula but you will need to purchase a downdraft range or use a Best Cattura pop up vent behind the existing range. This would be the least expensive way to open up the kitchen.

http://www.bestrangehoods.com/cattura

https://www.jennair.com/ranges/dual-fuel-ranges/slide-in-dual-fuel-range/p.euro-style-30-dual-fuel-downdraft-range.jds1750fs.html

Downdrafts are useless. But they are particularly useless and harmful with a gas range. Any fan strong enough to overcome physics to try to get naturally rising cooking products to go downwards also pulls the flame on the gas burner. And pulls the heat away from the pan. Your cooking is interfered with, and the vent doesn’t even work well.

There’s a better layout that doesn’t involve a peninsula cooking zone. Work with a kitchen designer. There’s a lot of things to know here. That take a year or so to come up to speed about.

What are your goals for this remodel? Why are you removing the wall? Your current setup would feel a lot less cramped if the range wasn’t sticking out so far and you just replaced the fridge with a built-in model. (Why is the range sticking out so far?)

🙂

Hey Sammy, the range is sticking out because we just bought it and it does not fit in the back. We want to open up the kitchen to the living room and we want a big single sink. The current counters are very busy. We bought quartzite and will paint the cabinets white.

Caleadon actually the Best Cattura down draft works well. And compared to a hood microwave anything would be a better option. In general I have to go back and fix most kitchen designers work.

Please don’t parrot and perpetuate marketing falsehoods. Physics and other related science simply doesn’t agree that side drafts work anywhere close to overhead venting. When would retail sales ever have to “fix“ anything design and construction related? That’s a big stretch.

Do you even cook? If so, join the Cooking Forum. But keep your sales spiels out of here.

Celadon, you are right, we do want to work with a kitchen designer. It is a small project though so many are not interested in small jobs like that. Any suggestions on how to get in touch with a designer or may be an online design website that would take a project like that?

I’m sure Celadon has a great recommendation LOL. no sales pitch there right? Im not trying to sell anything, I just know what I am talking about and you obviously have no clue. And yes I cook I own Thermador appliances. BTW I am the director of sales and development for a large company and have over 43 years experience. I deal with designers all day long, they love the vision but have no clue how to make it happen. Cheers

My kitchen is set up like your proposed remodel. It works wonderfully. It is 14ft. From my range to sink. No problem. I do have a pot filler at the stove. We’ve lived in the home for twenty years and when we redo the kitchen the appliance locations will not change. I never liked any of the kitchens I had where the range was close to the sink. I prefer mise en place - staging my cooking ingredients near the cooktop and having my sink as a clean as you go station while cooking. I suppose it depends how you utilize your kitchen. Best of luck on your remodel.

Thank you Daisy! That is so good to hear. I feel we have a lot of restrictions and going that route might be practical for us but I get what others are saying.

Post a floor plan with measurements, including the adjacent rooms.

You're asking for help without giving us enough information to work with. (I know I sound like a broken record, but most people omit the basic information we need. It's all in the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread.)

Please post a fully-measured layout of the space under consideration and a sketch of the entire floor. Both can be either hand-drawn, computer generated, or drawn up with computer/app tools.

By "fully-measured", we mean a layout with the widths of each wall/window/door/doorway and the distances between each wall/window/door/doorway labeled. See a sample below. If something cannot be moved or changed, label it precisely on your layout (see post in sample) and tell us why it cannot be moved/changed -- we may have some ideas for you.

The sketch of the entire floor lets us see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the home. It doesn't have to be to-scale, but it should accurately show how the rooms relate to each other and should include all interior & exterior doors. In addition, it will help us see how traffic flows in, around, and through the Kitchen. Label the front entry and family entry. The family entry is usually a garage or side entry, but it might not be. It's helpful to know which door you use to bring in groceries.

Hi Buehl, that is fair. I tried to draw it and take some extra photos.

Kitchen measurements and living/dining room.

The wall between the living room and kitchen cannot be removed (weight bearing)

Also this part of the wall cannot be entirely torn down due to the heater vent situation. Our contractor said it will need major rerouting.

I feel as if we're not getting the full picture. There is a closet to the right of the front entry, and a smaller closet (pantry? mechanical?) which opens to the kitchen. Which wall is actually weight-bearing--the wall on the entry side or the kitchen side? Can the entry closet be used for extending the kitchen?

Although at first glance, using the closet area doesn't seem to add much to the long, narrow kitchen, it would allow you to extend the counter to the right of the recessed fridge, and would provide a sight line to the window. Another thought, which someone mentioned upthread, would be to omit the peninsula and place the DW to the right of the sink. In that case, with the fridge set back into the closet area, maybe there would be space for a small island?

Yes, there is a closet on the left from the entrance in that same weight bearing wall where the pantry is in the kitchen. These are pretty great ideas. Our contractor said that moving the DW will require drilling the ceiling on the basement floor. Also since we are keeping the same cabinets that would not be an option.

Thank you for your input. There is no need to be so harsh. I appreciate everyone’s input. I am sorry I have not been able to provide all the needed pieces to help plan this but I have limited abilities in this area.

Op, take the harsh commentary with a grain of salt. I was also wondering, though, what the reasoning is for attempting to retain the cabinetry. Your cabinets look nice, but it seems odd to be embarking on a kitchen reno of this size, scale, and expense, and to not also be planning to replace the cabinetry as part of the update. If your budget won’t stretch far enough to replace the cabinets, that is what it is and we’ve all been there (or at least most of us have been there), but it might be better to wait until the budget will stretch further.

It just seemed like a simple project at first and we wanted to open up the wall. This is why the cabinets were not included in the budget. We also paid at the higher price point for this home and we will not have a return on a big investment remodel.

You will need new cabinets, in addition to the new floors, ceiling work, and the structural, electrical, plumbing, and HVAC work. This isn't a small budget project. It would be a far better approach to take longer to plan this better with a kitchen designer, and then do it in a year or so. Do it correctly once.

Also, that contractor obviously isn’t the right one for the job. He is lacking in some basic knowledge and skill. Load being walls are not that difficult to move. They just require the right support . The wall that is being proposed to be removed is load bearing. The cross wall likely isn’t, but may be, due to stair placement. So, theres’s that. Dishwashers do not need ceiling surgery to be moved next to the sink. They are designed to be placed there. There are way too many red flags with that.

https://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2020/

Thanks for the additional drawings and measurements. That really helps.

Diana, I've moved stove and dishwasher - the gas line had to be rerouted, (which perhaps can be done through the wall instead of the floor?) but the dishwasher did not require any floor or under floor work at all. As other posters have said, if the d/w is next to the sink, everything just connects under the sink, no need to route anything through the floor. So I really would encourage you to talk to another contractor about the job.

My first thought also was to put the fridge on the wall where you proposed to put the stove, and the stove on the current fridge wall. This puts the fridge into easier access from the DR/LR which is a benefit. I am never in favor of a cooktop on a peninsula or island, and very much in favor of exterior venting. I don't like leaving the d/w in it's current location, but if it doesn't bother you, could be an acceptable compromise.

I like MamaGoose's second plan, with the island. You can build one out of cabinets to have accessible storage on both sides, which might help make up for the loss of storage by removing the wall.

Still, I have to ask - you will lose storage and some flexibility in making an efficient workspace - what will you gain by removing the wall?

From my experience, dishwashers are connected to the plumbing by coming off the sink plumbing. Is your contractor maybe talking about wiring the circuit for electrical? If the basement ceiling is Sheetrock then it is not a difficult repair. It is a matter of making the patch and repainting the ceiling. He will just have to add it into the budget.

Moving the range to approximately the fridge location also should make it easier to put in a range hood and vent it outside in the soffit above that row of cabinets.

Thanks so much for these great suggestions. We have time to start so we can plan it correctly.
The reason why we are opening the wall is because we want the cook to not be isolated in the kitchen. We like to have friends and family over and everyone ends up bunched up by the fridge and table in the breakfast nook. We would like to have chairs in the peninsula and just have more of an open space.

Let that contractor go. Budget appropriately for the extent of the work needed. You for sure can’t keep the cabinets with that scope. Allocate that budget to work with a good design professional to plan this. The more time you spend designing and planning, the fewer mistakes that arise during the build portion. Good design more than pays for itself!

@mama goose_gw zn6OH's second plan with the island is really great. It moves the DW next to the sink rather than perpendicular. Perpendicular requires you to do a lot of twisting and turning, and can be a tripping hazard if you need to walk around it to put something away. You're probably accustomed to this setup after living with it, but it's not ideal. Also, it makes a lot more sense for the fridge to be on the far wall, and the range to be closer to the sink. You'll have better flow when cooking, and if someone else comes into the kitchen to get something out of the fridge, then you are less likely to get in each other's way. As others have said, you definitely won't be able to reuse your cabinets in this remodel given the project scope. Good luck and please be sure to post pics of the after!

I think these FAQs may help you understand what people are saying:

• Work Zones, What Are They?: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500762/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they
• Aisles Widths, Seating Overhangs, etc.: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500771/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc
• Storage Planning: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500787/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage
• Ice.Water.Stone.Fire, a humorous discussion of Kitchen design: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

(All were taken from the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread.)

I would look for an independent kitchen designer that you can pay to do a design for you - then you can shop the plan for price. We paid our KD $300 to do several revisions.

Mainenell, is moving the refrigerator away from the sink an issue or fairly easy? We do have an electrical plug on that wall by the pantry.

Moving the fridge is easy. I think you will be looking at a bit of electrical work as all of your major appliances should have their own circuit. With the electronics on all appliances these days it easy to have the circuit boards damaged by small electrical surges when another appliance on a circuit comes on or goes off. Other than that it is connecting the water line for the fridge (easy plumbing) and moving the electric and/or gas to the new range location. Sheetrock repair in the basement is not terribly difficult or expensive. Just know that it is part of the cost of having a much better functioning kitchen with space to move around. But in your kitchen well worth the added expense. Not having the fridge in the middle of your work area will be worth the extra.

We really love your idea of moving it away and having the range there instead for easy venting outside. Thank you!

I’d remove the wall. Put in a gas cooktop in the existing place with a drop down modern hood from the ceiling and barstools on opposite side of counter. Then I would put wall oven, microwave and cabinets on the empty wall where the table is.