I think I only got one of my sport seeds to germinate......

Here it is.... the orange one.... it looks just like the mother plant.....

That is fabulous, I love it.

"it looks just like..." in a photo that you posted above? (looks unique to me.)

Hi Sharon,

That zinnia is very special. It doesn't have petals, but it does have stigmas, as well as a few pollen florets. So, if you self it a lot (apply the pollen to the stigmas) you might get enough seeds to get a good start of that.

ZM

Hi everyone! I just recently started gardening and researching breeding zinnias. my question is about growing zinnias early indoors. i have led 5000k shop lights and have found mix info online about how far to set the lights once the zinnias germinate. does anyone have any advice?

Hello Yeise,

Welcome to this message thread. You should have the shop lights a few inches above zinnias to avoid getting the hot bulbs close enough to the zinnias to overheat them. I suggest using wire chains and S-hooks to make it convenient to raise the bulbs as the zinnias grow closer to them. That is particularly easy to do if you are using chrome wire steel shelves. You can click on the photo to see a larger version of it, and then click on the X in the upper righthand corner of the big version to return to the smaller version.

Zinnias can grow fairly fast, so you have to raise the lights fairly frequently to keep them out of contact with the hot bulbs.

ZM

Thanks zenman, i have the lights 4 inches from the seedlings. here’s a pic of my setup

I’m not sure about overheating, i do feel some heat when im close to the lights, but the led bulbs are cool when i touch them. i will keep an eye on them

Do these seedlings look leggy to you?

Also, is 12 hours enought light or should i switch to 16 hours?

Hello Yeise,

" Do these seedlings look leggy to you? "

No, they look fine for newly emerging seedlings. Your current danger at this stage is Damping Off Disease, and so far your seedlings look fine. Damping Off can kill them quickly. What medium are they growing in?

" Also, is 12 hours enough light or should I switch to 16 hours? "

If they start to get leggy, switch to 16 hours of light. Your timer settings do, in effect, select the photoperiod, and 16 hours corresponds to a mid-Summer photoperiod. So far, so good. You are doing fine. Keep us posted. Incidentally, your photography is great.

ZM

Thanks zenman, I’ve been reading through the forum to get the information so I don’t ask repeated questions but it’s a lot of pages so thanks for answering!

I used some organic seed starting mix I happened to have, very happy with the germination. I got my seeds from swallowtail garden.

My lights didn’t come with a timer, instead I plugged them into a smart plug that I use for my Christmas tree lights in the winter. so I can control it from an app. There is a schedule function in the app that works like a timer but I had to pick the times myself.

Hello Yeise,

" My lights didn’t come with a timer, instead I plugged them into a smart plug that I use for my Christmas tree lights in the winter. so I can control it from an app. There is a schedule function in the app that works like a timer but I had to pick the times myself. "

Ingenious. That could work. Keep us informed of your zinnia's progress.

ZM

Hi ZM, quick question! is it possible for two seedlings to come out of one seed?? from how close together they are, could they be twins? if so, will the plants be identical? this is fascinating to me since i an also an identical twin XD

Hello Yeise,

" ...is it possible for two seedlings to come out of one seed?? "

That's a good photograph. It may have been that two seeds were stuck together very closely. I have never seen a zinnia seed with two embryos. However, I have never seen two zinnia seedlings that close together. Occasionally I will see an unusual zinnia seed.

Your zinnia seedlings look fine. Let's hope they don't get Damping Off.

More later.

ZM

zen_man, do you ever fertilize seedlings?

i feel like they came from the same seed since the same seed coat is stuck on both of them. i did some research and it seems like twin seedlings could be a possibility. im gonna label them and keep an eye on them, its an experiment within another experiment XD So far i havent had an issues with dampening off. ive been watering very carefully

Hi four,

" do you ever fertilize seedlings? "

I feed my zinnia seedlings with Better-Gro Orchid Plus diluted one teaspoon per gallon of water every week or so. (My zinnias are my "orchids".) I use a urea-free product because my Pro-Mix growing medium doesn't contain any soil microbes to break urea down into ionic forms that could be used by the plants.

Since the Orchid Plus doesn't contain any Calcium, I make a separate stock solution of Calcium nitrate in water and I add some of that solution to the gallon of Orchid Plus. By mixing dilute stock solutions, I avoid the Calcium combining with the phosphate in the Orchid Plus to form an insoluble Calcium phosphate precipitate. Calcium is the fourth most used element by plants, so it is vital. I add a few optional elements like Silicon as Potassium silicate. Silicon strengthens plant cell walls. I occasionally add a few other optional trace elements. I had a chemistry set as a kid and that may have affected my gardening.

ZM

Hi Yeise,

Well, now I agree, it looks like you have two zinnia plants coming from the same seed. I have grown a lot of zinnias, a lot, but I have never seen that. Not until now. It will be interesting to see what the blooms look like. Will they be identical twins?? Or different. Or perhaps really strange. I hope they make it through to adulthood. And I hope the blooms are super weird. I have a preference for odd zinnias. This was one of my favorites. (Click the photo to see the larger version.)

Botanically, any part of a plant that can produce a seed is called a flower. Which makes all zinnia individual petals botanically flowers in their own right. And the above zinnia bloom sort of proves that point. (Each of those yellow pollen florets can also produce a seed, so they get to be botanical flowers as well, and that flower definition is getting stretched.)

ZM

>"I feed my zinnia seedlings" ___ Now I know that I safely can proceed with my thought of doing it.

>"Calcium is the fourth most used element by plants" ___Thanks, I never have given specific attention to it; general attention yes, by way of using (inconsistently) a fertilizer that contains extra minerals. I see that Ca is the highest extra (so, fourth overall).

>"Silicon strengthens plant cell walls" ___ I might try that.

--------

Later :

I found that Dyna-gro product named Protekt is potassium silicate (or effectively so; the potassium and the silicate are listed separately).

Hi! hope everyone is doing well! We had a freeze over the weekend that killed my outdoor winter sown zinnias that i had in a jug. I’m happy that i learned how to start seeds indoors, it’s been a lot less stressful than i thought. My zinnias are doing well, maybe too well! They’re growing so fast that I’m worried about them staying in the 6 cell trays so long. They’re just starting to get their second set of true leaves. My last frost date is April 15th, so I’m wondering if I should transfer them to 4in pots in the meantime. I do have the space under the lights. How big should they be before I move them to the 4in pots?

Hello four,

" I found that Dyna-gro product named Protekt is potassium silicate (or effectively so; the potassium and the silicate are listed separately). "

The ProTekt product is simply Potassium silicate in solution with water. It is highly alkaline in pH.

So don't use too much of it.

ZM

Yelse, roots are what is important in the moving decision. Definitely move any whose roots are visible in tray holes.

Hello Yeise,

" We had a freeze over the weekend that killed my outdoor winter-sown zinnias that I had in a jug. "

The jug is supposed to act like a little greenhouse. Was your jug not entirely closed? I admit I have been skeptical about the Winter Sown growing technique, and have never used it. But it has its advocates.

" My last frost date is April 15th, so I’m wondering if I should transfer them to 4in pots in the meantime. I do have the space under the lights. How big should they be before I move them to the 4in pots? "

They will be in bud or even with the first blooms opening by April 15th. So move them to larger pots when they seem a little crowded in your cell trays. That could start in a week or two. Incidentally, Last Frost Dates are statistical and not 100 percent safe. And zinnias are warm-weather plants.

ZM

>"Potassium silicate in solution....highly alkaline" ___ Is it highly alkaline if not in solution?

Was your jug not entirely closed?

I put the lid back on the jug and put the jug under my elevated garden bed for more protection. It still wasn’t enough to combat 23F (-5C) weather. The only things that took a beating were the tender annuals, I lost a couple cosmo and dahlia seedlings too. Everything else like coneflowers, lavender, daisies, lupin, alliums did great. Zinnias just aren’t meant for that type of weather, I should have brought them inside with my alyssum. I still like the winter sowing method, it’s very low maintenance.

heres a pic of the zinnias versus the alyssum

They will be in bud or even with the first blooms opening by April 15th…

Oh goodness, I thought I had more time. I guess I was too early in sowing them but I was to excited not to! I’m going to be pinching them in the future so hopefully that will buy me some time

Hello four,

" Is it highly alkaline if not in solution? "

The product ProTekt is itself a fairly strong solution of Potassium silicate in water, and it is highly alkaline.

ZM

Hello Yeise,

" I’m going to be pinching them in the future so hopefully that will buy me some time "

In 4-inch pots they will be rather rootbound in a month, but being rootbound isn't all bad. It makes them easier to transplant. I start my zinnia seedlings in 3-inch square pots and, if I intend to let them bloom indoors, I repot them to 5-inch square pots. I have on occasion let them bloom in 3-inch pots, but that is kind of sad. I have some larger pots but I don't have enough indoor space to use very many of them. Keep us informed of your progress.

ZM

>"Potassium silicate in solution....highly alkaline" ___ Is it highly alkaline if not in solution?

The "it" here refers to the compound.

Hello again, four,

I refer you to this Wikipedia article on Potassium silicate

ZM

Hi everyone! Happy April! Only two more weeks until my average last frost date :) Hopefully I’ll be able to plant in one months time. I realized I’ve never actually seen a zinnia in real life before so I’m excited to see my first bloom! Although I think I will be seeing it indoors instead :)

I was potting up some more seedlings and I noticed how different this queen lime orange seedling looks from the rest. It might be a mutation, it seems to be double leaves, how interesting!

Hello Yeise,

Yes, that zinnia is very different, and potentially desirable. I hope you can grow it to maturity and can save seeds from it, because it probably will have a desirable extra bushy plant habit. In addition to breeding for better blooms, I also breed for improvements in the zinnia plant habit. I like longer narrower pointed leaves, and more bushiness. Occasionally I see three leaves, and sometimes three branches, at each node.

Better zinnia plants are a goal of mine.

ZM

It saddens me to say that the mutated zinnia I posted before has reverted back to normal, I’m still going to save the seeds I get from it though. I decided to pinch the some of the zinnias today, and noticed this unusual one. 3 cotyledons and the rest of the leaves are all fused together. It might revert back to normal too but i thought I’d share since it looks funky

Hello Yeise,

You are doing very well with the zinnia seedlings that you have. The 3-cotyledon zinnias are rather rare. Even rarer is when the leaves continue in threes. I occasionally see zinnias with longer sharply pointed leaves, and I kind of like those.

I think there is a lot of room for improvement in the zinnia plants themselves, and it seems that the necessary genes may be just waiting to be brought out by repeated cross-pollinations.

More later.

ZM

Hey all,

Been awhile since I posted anything. Last year I had a couple of fused head blooms. One had 4 flowers fused together and another had 5 blooms fused together.

One of my double decker flowers had tubular petals on the bottom and regular petals on top.

BTG

Hello BTG,

Those are remarkably new and novel zinnia characteristics. I have never seen anything exactly like any of them. However, Aster Yellows Phytoplasma

(that is a clickable link) could be involved, and if it is, you may see some more weird things in your zinnias. Keep us posted. And tell us about your ongoing zinnia doings. I have been experimenting with the use of Oxine in my zinnia seedling starting. More later.

ZM

The ”twins” bloomed and like i thought they are the same color. these two seeds came from the same seed pod. this is probably the end of the experiment for them. Although seeing if their seeds produced more twins would be interesting, im not sure its worth the effort as zinnias already germinate so easily

Hello Yeise,

" ...these two seeds came from one pod. this is probably the end of the experiment for them. Although seeing if their seeds produced more twins would be interesting, I'm not sure its worth the effort as zinnias already germinate so easily "

I am guessing you mean that these two plants came from one seed, since zinnias don't really have pods. It is true that zinnias germinate quickly (anywhere from 2 to 6 days) when planted in favorable media, but your twin plant feature is unusual and, in my opinion, worth continued experimentation. Their petals are also rather up-rolled, so that the light petal backsides show up well. This can result in somewhat different-looking zinnia blooms.

It would be desirable if the petal backside color were pure white, but that is not the case with most zinnia blooms, including this one. I think it would be possible to have pure white on the petal backsides, and I think I have seen that, although I don't have a picture of that handy.

ZM

Hey guys, quick question! is the first flower to bloom a good representative of what that plant will always look like? if its a red single petal, will the flowers from its branching also be red single petals? hope that makes sense! i dont want to cull too hastely

Hello Yeise,

" is the first flower to bloom a good representative of what that plant will always look like? "

Yes, all of the blooms on a zinnia plant will be very similar, though, if you are picky, there may be slight differences in the blooms. Occasionally, and this is very rare, a branch on a zinnia bush will have a very different bloom, and this is an example of what is called a "bud sport" in some garden plants. But if you hate the first bloom, it makes sense to cull the plant. Or, if you are experimenting with grafting zinnias, you could graft a branch from a different zinnia plant onto it.

ZM.

I really wanted to self pollinate one of my zinnias but I’m not noticing any florets, can I still cross pollinate it with another zinnias florets? Or does this mean it’s sterile?

Hello Yeise,

" ...can I still cross pollinate it with another zinnias florets? Or does this mean it’s sterile? "

No, your zinnia bloom is not sterile. Only triploid zinnias are sterile, and you don't have any of those. The stigmas at the base of each petal are receptive to pollen for many days. And when any pollen florets do show up, they will have automatically self-pollinated themselves. And their pollen can be used to fertilize stigmas, on the same bloom or different bloom on the same plant, or bloom on a different zinnia plant.

Do be alert for the appearance of pollen florets. They will appear in the morning, be automatically self-pollinated, and have pollen available for application to the stigmas of any zinnia petals you chose to pollinate or cross-pollinate. Do be alert for the appearance of pollen florets early in the morning, because their pollen becomes "old" by the late afternoon, and will not be usable the next day. The individual zinnia pollen grains are actually alive, but remain so for less than 12 hours, give or take.

ZM

Just wanted to show zm this crazy zinnia

Hello Yeise,

I have had an occasional "two-in-one" zinnia bloom like that. I didn't save seeds from them specifically, because I didn't consider them particularly attractive. They are rare, so you must have quite a few zinnias in bloom. I wouldn't make fun of you if you decided to save seeds from that crazy zinnia.

ZM

Zen_man,

Do you have any new zinnias? I have been missing seeing your photos.

cindi

Hi Cindi,

Actually, I do have a few "newish" zinnias, because I have been growing some zinnias indoors throughout these cold late Fall and Winter months. I have taken some photos and I need to process the photos for upload here. I processed this photo this morning.

That is a variation on my "exotic" zinnia flower form and in the juvenile stage, the petals resemble the "Woolly" zinnia petal form. The "Woolly" petals are closed at the end.

The Woolly zinnia petals are "strong" by virtue of their totally enclosed structure. However, this means that the enclosed stigma cannot receive pollen unless the zinnia also has enclosed pollen-bearing anthers, which many of the Woolly zinnias do not have. Those Woolly petals can produce a seed only if the petal is surgically opened and pollen applied to the internal stigma. I concede that the "Woolly" zinnias are questionably attractive.

I realize these details are of interest primarily to someone who is actively engaged in breeding zinnias. I have several zinnia photos in my camera which I will transfer to my computer so that I can show them here.

I have really been enjoying my indoor zinnia activities. I am even considering continuing an indoor activity in parallel with my outdoor zinnia activities this coming Spring and Summer. There are advantages to indoor zinnias. For one thing, you have control of the photoperiod of indoor zinnias. Zinnia elegans is a facultative Short Day (long night) plant.

More later.

ZM

Thank you for the photos and the information. I was the bee a couple of years ago and hand pollinated a couple zinnias under your directions. I think my screen name might have been different then. It was cindi something. haha

I always loved seeing your photos and enjoyed all the information that you provide. I might try again this year.

cindi

Hi, cindi,

This is another home-hybridized zinnia photo.

I am not certain, but I suspect it got its two-color petal scheme from Whirligig ancestry.

ZM

This is gorgeous zen_man. I can see how it might have Whirligig as a relative.

cini

Hi everyone,

This is a recent photo of some of my indoor zinnia seedlings.

Zinnias grow rapidly, and I even have some that are in bloom. Pictures of them to come.

ZM

Hello again, everyone,

This was a photo of some of my indoor zinnias coming into bloom a few weeks ago. As usual here in Houz land, you can click on this "thumbnail" photo to see a larger version, which you can then close by clicking on the X in the upper right-hand corner of the larger picture.

I have a small fan attached to the frame on the right front side. It creates a small breeze to give the zinnias a little "exercise". More later. I really enjoy my indoor zinnia gardening.

ZM

Did fan have anything to do with the larger size of plants on that side?

Hi four,

" Did fan have anything to do with the larger size of plants on that side? "

It probably did, at least indirectly. The fan caused me to add more nutrient water to the pans on that side. I now have and use four of those smaller fans that can be attached to the shelving tubing. I will probably purchase a couple more of them as my indoor operation expands.

ZM