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Help! Insulation issue?!

Yun Kim
last year
last modified: last year

Hi,

I have installed staple UP hydronic in floor heating system throughout the house except this area on main floor where we could not access from basement ceiling as it does not have crawl space either directly below is few inches above ground size of 3*18’ and we ended up putting batt insulation R41 then direcly above it we have aluminum panel and pex pipe

my concern is we didnt put any vapour barrier and would this be a problem of condensation or any other issue?

my hvac contractor installed insulation and obviously insulation isnt his expertise

they wanted to finish the project maybe we rushed this without thinking?

do you see any problme?

we have 1/2” subfloor on top of pex and will put engineered hardwood to finish


Comments (23)

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Will the engineered hardwood be nailed to the 1/2” subfloor?

    If it is, the 'pex' may start to look like bullseyes.

    Was the batt insulation stuffed into place or set in place?

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    mark, no we will have to use floating or glue only as there are pex below.

  • dan1888
    last year

    I would have put a 10 or 6 mil vapor barrier on top of the soil.

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    Yes.. i wish i did that. as you can see its pex pipe and plate all nailed on joist i wish i can take all out and put vappur barrier

    i was hoping there will be a way to protect without major reconstruction

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    @Mark Bischak, Architect what do you mean by bulles eyes?

    batt was stuffed in there not sure if i understand the difference between set and stuff

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    last year

    Stuffed gives poor insualtion value since it is compacted .Yes you needed a vapour barrier and I am not sure how effective this floor heating system will be in that situation

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    @Patricia Colwell Consulting how about condensation issue? would it cause mold and condensation without barrier?

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    last year

    Of course .

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    last year

    Bullseyes, as in targets for nails to hit; but you are not using nails, so that is good in that aspect.

    It is the air the insulation entraps that gives it the insulation value. The batts must maintain their fluff to maintain their insulation value.

  • dan1888
    last year
    last modified: last year

    If this were my responsibility going forward, I'd carefully remove the fasteners. I'd remove the insulation. I'd put in a 10mil vapor barrier. Then replace everything. Worth the bit of difficulty. Even if I had to buy a cat's paw or other nail puller.

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    @Mark Bischak, Architect @Patricia Colwell Consulting

    What would be my best option?

    spray foam would not need vapour barrier between soil and insulation and also between foam and pex pipe?


    where do I need vapour barrier? Soil-)

    vapor barrier-) batt insulation-) vapourbarrier-) pex?


    or can we omit vapour barrier between pex and insulation?

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    @dan1888 you mean reconstuct everything here?


    as you can see there is this joist would vapour barrier be effective when you cant completely seal it?


    ( we used to have spray foam insulation and removed them thinking we could staple up the pex but because of double joist it was really hard to put pex pipe between joist and ended up doing staple down wish never removed that spray foam insulation to begin with)



  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    last year

    The location of vapor barriers in construction has always baffled me, hearing conflicting philosophies. Hire a local insulation expert that can visit the site and see the conditions.

    I would think it would be beneficial to somehow block the moisture from the ground before it reaches the structure.

  • millworkman
    last year

    Moisture must be blocked between the ground and the structure or you will end up with mold, 100% guaranteed.

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @dan1888@Mark Bischak, Architect @millworkman

    asked the contrator and he said there is some foam insulation and put batt insulation.. would this help at all?

  • millworkman
    last year

    NO.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    last year

    I just noticed the image posted immediately above my last comment, SCARY!!!!

    Get a local insulation sub-contractor involved in your project before your contractor commits any more crimes.

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    So its about 2 foot above ground does it make any difference?



  • millworkman
    last year

    No, actually probably even more important to have a moisture barrier.

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    @millworkman why would it be more an issue? i thought underground would be more humid?

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    i contacted insulation trade and they say no vapour barrier required with spray insulation

  • worthy
    last year

    This downloadable guide from Building Science Corp shows details for all types of spray foam installations.


    If the spray foam is outside, it should be protected from insects and other burrowing creatures.

  • Yun Kim
    Original Author
    last year

    Thanks @worthy I will have spray foam insulator to see what they say..