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need2seegreen

too little sun for UC Verde, or other buff? zone 22

Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal)
5 months ago
last modified: 5 months ago

Hello,

I would love to get some input on what type of grass might be best.

This is for a 12' x 21' patch in the northeast corner of a backyard. (For dchall, we are just north of the 405, near the Rossmoor/Los Alamitos area of Orange County in Cal. When I make it look better, I'll put a photo. I haven't done the soil test yet either.)

The area gets at least 6 hours of full direct sun in June.

However, now, on November 11, it really only gets maybe 2 hours or so of sun on the whole area. (There are structures nearby, which filter.) The northern wall is white and does reflect a good bit though.

I really like the idea of UC Verde but I suspect that this area may not get enough sun. And if not, are there any buffalo grasses that can take a bit of shade? (I am fine with dyeing it during the winter. Or overseeding with something.)

Also, I want something that is very flat and easy to walk on. (I think I asked about UC Verde and flatness before, but I couldn't find that post anymore, and I don't recall the answer given.) I don't mind if the grass looks bumpy, but it has to be flat to walk on. I'm not interested in fake turf, or in clover either.

Well, sorry if this is a boring post - I have seen many similar ones, but I haven't seen this exact question before. (Though, maybe I didn't search correctly.)

Thanks in advance!!

Comments (6)

  • Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal)
    Original Author
    5 months ago

    Thanks so much for the reply!! Your friend's lawn sounds amazing - this is my first time really getting aquainted with lawn care and there is so much to learn.


    It would be great to be able to have a taller lawn - I really like the look. (Also, part of the attraction of the buffalo grass was the idea of not having to water much, which made me imagine - in my vivid fantasy life - that I might be able to not have to put in sprinklers.)


    However, first things first - it does happen that I will have to do a lot of leveling, both in this backyard space and also there are bumpy places in front, due to some plumbing issues.


    And I had been assuming - as did one of the gardeners I spoke with - that this had to mean adding compost. I am not sure I have a preference, really, except that maybe the sand will have fewer weed seeds in it. I've been snooping around here and weed seeds seem to have a variety of ways to arrive. Well, plus, this area is completely weed-seeded already. But that doesn't mean it couldn't get worse!!


    I'll have to hurry up and put up some photos. I will need help figuring out how much sand to get.



  • dchall_san_antonio
    5 months ago

    The difference between compost and sand (or soil) is that compost will continue to decompose and completely disappear in a year or two leaving you with the same unlevel surface you started with. Sand and soil are minerals and do not disappear like organic materials do. Good compost will not have living seeds in it, because the seeds will have been cooked to death by the 150 degree F heat of the compost pile.

    Our current house has sprinklers, but I never figured out where they are or how they turn on. Sure, I could have figured that out, but I'm more comfortable with my oscillating sprinklers and the hose.

    Lawn care is not that difficult. Here it is in a nutshell. This was written for a wide audience, so you might have some specific questions which are not addressed here.


    Basics of Lawn Care

    After reading numerous books and magazines on lawn care, caring for lawns at seven houses in my life, and reading numerous forums where real people write in to discuss their successes and failures, I have decided to side with the real people and dispense with the book and magazine authors. I don't know what star their planet rotates around but it's not mine. With that in mind, here is the collected wisdom of the Internet savvy homeowners and lawn care professionals summarized in a few words. If you follow the advice here you will have conquered at least 50% of all lawn problems. Once you have these three elements mastered, then you can worry about weeds (if you have any), dog spots, and striping your lawn. But if you are not doing the following three things, they will be the first three things suggested for you to correct.


    1. Watering

    Water deeply and infrequently. Deeply means at least an inch in every zone, all at once. Infrequently means monthly during the cool months and no more than weekly during the hottest part of summer. Do not spread this out and water for 10 minutes every day. If your grass looks dry before the month/week is up, water longer next time. If that does not work, then you might have to water more than once per week during the summer's hottest period. Deep watering grows deep, drought resistant roots. Infrequent watering allows the top layer of soil to dry completely which kills off many shallow rooted weeds and weeds which rely on continual moisture (looking at YOU, nutgrass).


    You will have to learn to judge when to water your own lawn. If you live in El Paso your watering will be different than if you live in Vermont. Adjust your watering to your type of grass, temperature, humidity, wind, and soil type. It is worth noting that this technique is used successfully by professionals in Phoenix, so...just sayin.' The other factors make a difference. If you normally water 1 inch per week and you get 1/2 inch of rain, then adjust and water only 1/2 inch that week.


    2. Mowing

    Every week mulch mow at the highest setting on your mower. Most grasses are the most dense when mowed tall. However, bermuda, centipede, and bent grasses will become the most dense when they are mowed at the lowest setting on your mower. In fact there are special mowers that can mow these grasses down to 1/16 inch. Dense grass shades out weeds, keeps the soil cooler, and uses less water than thin grass. Tall grass can feed the deep roots you developed in #1 above. Tall grass does not grow faster than short grass nor does it look shaggy sooner. Once all your grass is at the same height, tall grass just looks plush.


    3. Fertilizing

    Fertilize regularly. I fertilize 5 times per year using organic fertilizer. Which fertilizer you use is much less important than numbers 1 and 2 above. Follow the directions on the bag and do not overdo it (unless you use organics in which case you may overdo it without fear of hurting anything). Your first application of chemical fertilizer should go down at the end of spring - Memorial Day is easy to remember. The next app goes down the end of summer (Labor Day). The last app goes down the end of autumn (Thanksgiving or so). The last app should go down after the grass has stopped growing but before the frost hits.


    At this point you do not have to worry about weed and feed products - remember at this point you are just trying to grow grass, not perfect it. Besides once you are doing these three things correctly, your weed problems should go away without herbicide.



  • Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal)
    Original Author
    4 months ago

    Thanks so much!! This sounds like it might be actually sort of doable.


    In terms of the paver leveling sand, is there a particular brand? I saw at least 2 kinds.


    https://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-0-5-cu-ft-Paver-Leveling-Sand-100061838/204679512


    and


    https://www.homedepot.com/p/0-5-cu-ft-Leveling-Sand-64-Bags-32-cu-ft-Pallet-98000/314818971 (this link is for a whole bunch, I assume it comes in smaller amounts)


    Or is this a particle size issue? There was also something called polymeric sand - no idea what that's for.


    There is a small bumpy patch of grass in front - I think I'll start with that first, as a confidence builder.


    Should I make a post for that, or does everyone already know about it? (I am not ready to spend $80 on a spreader tool yet - I'm going to try using a big heavy doormat to drag, after I rake- not ideal, I know.)


    Thanks soooo much for all the helpful information and the pep talk!!


  • dchall_san_antonio
    4 months ago

    I am currently using the Pavestone sand under 2x2 step stones and really like it. It seems to be uniformly coarse. Another possibility is to contact your friendly neighborhood sandblasting company and tell them what you're doing. Depending on what they have on hand and what they blasted with it, they might have sand to give away. Ask what it might be contaminated with (like paint and rust, but you don't want any lead). I don't know if that's a viable idea or not - it just came to me because new sandblasting sand is sometimes cheaper if you live near a supplier.

    Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal) thanked dchall_san_antonio
  • Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal)
    Original Author
    4 months ago

    That's a great idea, thanks!! I would never have thought of it.