Natanya, it rather depends on the size of clematis plants received. Small ones that arrive in 2 or 3 inch pots are often rather fragile and can be easily damaged, thus many folks will repot them and let them grow on before planting directly in the ground. Whereas, there's no problem directly planting out larger established clematis.

I'd be careful not to be adding too much manure and then also using tomato fertilizer. I had read your other post regarding heavy orange soil, is the soil sticky and difficult to dig or not so bad to work with? It's a good idea to be adding in plenty of peat moss and also compost (if available) and some well rotted manure is fine, but don't over do it the stuff. Also, do deeply dig the planting holes, clematis can produce a very large root system.

Terry

If they are gallon sized plants like from Silver Star Vinery then no, but if they are tiny starts then the consensus is that they will do much better if you pot them into gallons and then plant out to the garden this fall or even next spring.

To offer a contrarian viewpoint:
I know that the consensus is to leave tiny starts in gallon pots, but I've found better success planting them directly into their final spot. I have good soil and regular precipitation, and mark my plants with something like a tomato cage so that they don't get damaged. I'm not good at remembering to water pots as often as I should, so they do much better in the ground. I've dealt with at least a half dozen small clematis this way and haven't lost any.

I always plant them directly into the ground, or at least after waiting a few days for them to harden off a little. I've never had a problem yet with doing this. Knock on wood lol.

I disagree with this line of thought, and have had excellent results going straight from liner size plants to in-ground plantings. Clems are tougher than people give them credit for.

To add my 2 cents worth, all the small plants I put directly in the ground have taken years to be a nice plant, if they haven't disappeared altogether. I quit buying the little strings.

They may be tough plants but when they are very small starts, they are exposed to too many variables that can affect their growth - breakage of the very fragile stems (very common), being overshadowed by other, larger plants, slug/snail/rabbit damage, inconsistant water availability, etc. I'd recommend potting up and growing on any perennial plant (and also small woody starts) received as a bare root start or in a liner size, not just clematis. It just gives them a fighting chance to grow them onto a more mature size (both in terms of topgrowth and root development) before letting them loose in the dangers of a garden :-)

Obviously, some of the other posters have had good success planting out very small plants.......I'd say they've just been lucky so far. It is not a practice I'd recommend.

well, I'm going to just put them in the ground. They were sent with a small stake in them that they are attached to and I won't remove that. We do have a couple bunnies, but I'm not worried about them.
I'll dig up the one I planted and amend the soil better. I'm also putting up fishing wire for them.

I don't see how they would do better in a pot because I would have to find a support for them to climb on in a pot and then untangle them to put them in the ground which sounds like it wouldn't work. Plus, they look healthy enough. I only transplant things into pots before planting if it's too cold out at night for them or if I don't have a place for them yet.

These were from Brushwood and Silver Star ones are coming this week - can't wait!

Thanks everyone,
Natanya

Potting up liner aka 2-4 inch pots into a 1/2 to one gallon is advisable for the pruning group 2's..ESPECIALLY for the Newbie because it will have a less chance of wilt. Digging a hole in your garden and dropping in the pot in an area where the sprinklers will water for you or an area you will remember to water is key!..Yes, I don't always pot up a baby clem but I am anal about checking the soil every day to make sure it hasn't dried out..for that is the kiss of death for a clematis and especially a small one that is fighting for survival in vast amounts of soil.Pinching out and not allowing a baby clem to go wild and grow vines are key..for in pinching you are forcing the baby to focus on growing its roots and not vines..this is a good thing..I have planted these so-called large rooted clems and have loss some of them as well..once you feel you are well versed and practiced in the needs of the clems then you can be brazen and plant them directly in the garden..I feel, we recommend potting up to help the newbie to feel secure and to learn the needs of their clems + it gives the clem a better chance of survival..One thing that is irrefutable is the soaking and potting up of bareroots...and once the newbie feels confident in growing them then they can judge if they should be potted up or not..also, that is why pruning group 3's are recommended alot..finding success in those easier to grow varieties gives confidence to the newbie to strike out and try their hand at the pruning group 2's!!...Jeanne

Since I cut back all newly purchased Clematis, stakes are immediately moot. I never place stakes from grower's pots into my garden. Mail order Clems that I have potted are pinched and pinched to avoid stakes though I do have bamboo stakes in the shed if needed.

Locally, I have never purchased a Clem in a pot smaller than a quart and have had no need to pot those on but I do pot up mail order plants no matter what they are. I also pot on many 4" plants such as the heather starts I've purchased at local plant sales. All mail order Clems I've received were tiny and were potted up.

I feel I can give pots more attention to watering than if these tiny babies are out in the garden. My garden isn't very big but it is packed with plants and it is easy to miss new ones. All my pots are next to my greenhouse and right by the hose. My husband can water them easily if I'm away too and if the babies were out in the garden he would likely miss them.

Jeanne's advice is dead-on :-) The recommendation to pot up tiny clems is one that is advocated by a lot of experienced clematis growers, certainly by the vast majority of "regulars" on this forum who have been growing and propagating a lot of different clematis for years. It just increases your chances of success and lowers the risk of wilt, damage and neglect that can easily strike down very tiny plants. But of course, it is only a recommendation, as are the guidelines for selection, planting and training/pruning of various clematis for those new to growing these vines.

How you choose to plant and grow your own vines is of course up to you, but the opinions and advice of experienced growers is often very helpful to those who have less experience. I give seminars and classes on growing clematis and potting up small plants for at least one full growing season is always one of my recommendations. The larger and more well-developed the root system is at planting time, the easier and faster the vine will establish. And liners, bare root starts or even 4" pots have virtually no root system to speak of.

Just my opinion :-)

OK OK, you convinced me. I'll put them in pots in the locations where they will eventually be planted.
:)
Natanya

Can I add to the confusion?

Amending the soil at the planting time is not recommended by the experts now. Doing it the natural way (top dressing with compost) is better.

But those experts are talking about trees and shrubs in landscapes not clematis or roses in gardens.....

I followed that advice when planting my first Clematis and DH was thrilled not to have to dig big holes and amend but the results were not good at all.

I didn't know any different until we created a new bed along the side of the house and since it was small DH rototilled in an entire load of compost before we planted anything. So, this entire bed enclosed by hardscape is amended, there won't be any "planting pockets" like are created when you plant a tree in the lawn and only amend the hole. That is what they are talking about.

The ten Clematis planted in that bed have grown like no others in my garden (I have over 60 total) I'm now going to start digging up those just plunked into holes they'd fit in and at the very least chop up the surrounding soil. They have ALL been topdressed with compost for over ten years but the difference has been amazing.

You are right about planting shrubs and trees, but with our heavy clay soil it is also true for Clematis and many other plants with large and sensitive to drainage roots. You had a great success with those Clematis because you amended the entire bed.

Here what I found in this article (and my own experience confirms this):

Unless adding a plant to an existing bed, don't cheat by just amending the soil removed from the planting hole, for the roots need to be encouraged to be developed beyond it. This is especially true when planting trees and shrubs. Many studies have shown that amending the soil only within the planting hole actually inhibits root development beyond it. The roots need to grow into the surrounding soil, and the sooner that happens, the faster and better the plant will become established.

And here is what Miguel said about growing Clematis in clay:

I garden in clay here in NC and find clay wonderful to garden in for the most part since it is high in minerals and the soil tends to hold water well. The downside is that if it dries out, it can be a bear to rewet to any significant depth. The solution is to add something to break up the clay such as pine bark soil conditioner to a degree and then mulch like crazy with whatever organic material you can get-grass clippings, bark, pine needles, etc. If you go overboard and amend the soil too much, the hole will be a swimming pool and plants will often die. If you can prepare a large bed for quite a few of your clematis to live in, then you can afford to go overboard with your amendments since a larger bed will drain better than a single hole. Another option if your soil is rocky or excessively claylike is to build raised beds and bring in good topsoil to fill the beds with.

I am not arguing with you, nor disagree with that advice. I'm sorry if I didn't write out what I meant in a clearer fashion. I have a nasty cold and am perhaps not being articulate.

Also sorry that we got way off topic, this thread was about potting up tiny mail order plants not amending planting holes...

Nowhere have I said to dig small holes and amend the snot out of them and to not touch the surrounding soil which would be absolutely wrong.

Clematis (and roses) do not grow root systems as big as trees and shrubs do. When someone is planting a row of Clematis along a fence it is the same as amending a whole bed. Which is just what Miguel said.

Most people don't buy just one and stick it out in the middle of nowhere like they often do shrubs and trees where they can be harmed by amended planting holes surrounded by unamended soil.

It has been my experience that Clematis planted in unamended holes chopped out of clay don't do nearly as well as those planted in holes where the clay is loosened up and compost added. I have some that were planted using a post hole digger that I'm digging up this year and starting over with. They have just sat there. I've found out the hard way that for me to avoid the frustration I had with Clematis for over five years I need to spend more time on holes/soil amending and I need to hard prune all when planting and first few years. Your results may vary....

I don't have the experience of many of the people on this forum (my oldest clems are only in their 3rd year now), but just wanted to add my 2 cents for what it's worth. Following the repotting advice I found here, I repotted 5 or 6 clems from 2.5" pots into gallon pots one year, and lost all but one of them by the following spring. Some of them rotted or wilted in the gallon pots, and others that I planted in the fall didn't make it through the winter.

Since then, I have potted all small clems directly in the ground with a 100% success rate so far. I planted at least 7 of them last year in the late spring/early summer and all are back this year and doing well.

I think maybe results vary a lot based on your location, zone, garden, watering habits, etc. I don't get a lot of critters around here eating my clems, and wilt and root rot are not issues in my zone. I also don't forget to look after my newly planted clems regularly. I only have about 20 clems total, so I know exactly where they all are. Last year I did have an issue with insects eating the 2 little Arabella clems I planted. They ate them right down to the ground and I thought they were goners, but they came back stronger than ever within a couple of weeks.

As someone else mentioned, I always cut my clems way back when I plant them in the ground. Good luck!

Sadly, the traditional first clematis for most is still the type 2 LFH in a liner pot or, shudder, bare root. They are drawn to that color tag or catalog picture of giant flowers and it reminds them of all the ones they see on lamp posts or mailboxes. Really, the most important thing for any new planting is after-care whether in a pot or in the ground. If you use a good mix and can provide regular care, a clematis will definitely grow more in a pot than the ground. If. I watch all of my new plantings for an entire season. Hey, I want to be in the garden anyway!
Fortunately, the internet is changing that sad first experience. More folks are involved in researching good choices and asking questions. Typical garden center employees don't actually know much about clematis (not all are ignorant, though) but you folks have direct experience and can speak to specific climate and garden conditions. Thanks for being here! (You make my job easier)

I have had some clems for many years and have recently expanded my collection. I have always had good luck with them but have been surprised to hear that some people don't. Some visitors say they just can't grow them. Last fall I ordered 6 by mail order for the first time. I knew it was late but they were half price. They came in mid October and I put them right into the ground. Two were even marked by the nursery as being dormant not dead because no growth could be seen. I think they were in 4" pots. We did have a mild fall and winter so maybe I lucked out but they are all growing this spring.
I do have some species clems that I started from seed last year. Now they are small for the most part and I am not sure when they will ever be ready for the garden. I have never grown anything quite so finicky. I did grow some tubulosas and they did great. Went dormant over the winter and grew great this spring. I just planted them out and they look really good.
I guess in my mind it all comes down to how much you are willing to baby something. If you have to baby it that much do you really want to grow it?
Debbie

Despite evidence to the contrary in this thread, we do get a lot of people posting here who buy tiny starts of type II large flowered hybrids who plant them and never see them again or get one or two flowers instead of hundreds.

Recommending for them to be potted up with a good well draining potting soil and grown out for a bit before planting is intended to help people avoid frustration.

I personally have lost half of the mail ordered Clematis I've bought, most of which were planted directly in the ground.

I was very frustrated with Clematis when I found this forum a few years ago and started pruning the snot out of them, amending holes and potting up mail orders. The advice I received helped me, so I'm trying to help others...I'm no novice gardener. I worked in horticulture for over twenty years, had some formal schooling in horticulture though didn't get my degree, am a university extension master gardener for over fifteen years and garden obsessively and Clematis were failures for me, reading how many do come here with failures made me think I could help.

I absolutely agree with BorS. Potting up smaller Clemmies helps a lot.

almondstriations,
Did you protect your potted Clematis during winter? Freeze/thaw cycles make roots rot. This and/or bad drainage caused you Clematis death most likely. Overwintering potted plants takes some extra care.

In most cases, tiny Clematis potted up in spring are ready to be planted in the garden by the same year fall. At least, Donahue's 2" pot babies fill 1 Gallon pots with their roots in 3-5 months. Pinching them back, good potting medium and excellent drainage are essential.

The problem I have with potting up first is our short growing season here. My clems need to be in the ground and adjusting to the environment, growing roots, etc well before our nasty winters set in. I have had 11 clems and have only lost one for sure, and not certain yet about one other one. Not too bad for all of them going right in the ground.

Climate zone matters, most Clematis are very hardy but their survival in pots in cold zones is not as good as in the ground though pots can be buried in the ground for insulation. The hope is that they'll grow enough roots and stems to be planted in fall rather than kept in pots over winter. Fall comes earlier in some places than others....

What potting soil used matters too. I lost almost my entire greenhouse worth of tropical plants the winter before last because I used Miracle Gro Moisture Control potting soil. It does not drain well at all and even moisture lovers like fuchias and cannas rotted off in it.

I had fungus gnats up the ying yang too.

I lost gardenias, hibiscus, cannas, fuchsias, Clematis florida Sieboldii and Cassis.

I lost plants outside the greenhouse as well.

I'm definitely a newbie, so I appreciate all the help I can get. I've read dozens of posts and learned a lot from this forum before I went out and bought any clematis, and I'm sure that has saved me from many frustrations and disappointments.

Just to get things straight, I'd like to know what you all mean by a "small pot" (small or baby clematis) and how big a pot (clematis) should be before you'd put it in the ground directly (ie not nursing it in a pot first). Where I live (Denmark), the clematis come in (plastic) pots that are about 5"x5" and 8"tall. Is that big enough to go directly into the ground? (I've done that so far - with mixed results) It's not possible to get them in larger sizes around here, I've checked in Sweden and Norway as well. I've read that some of you are able to get clematis in gallon pots, that's about 4 liters as far as I know, that sounds huge! Is that common in the US? Are they full of roots?

At the risk of sounding like a big idiot, I think that while the many people who advocate potting up baby clems are speaking from a lot of experience, I have to say, there are undoubtedly also those out there who have a lot of experience and say the opposite. I have grown (and killed) my fair share of clems, and I've concluded that in my garden you almost have to really try to kill them if they're planted in the ground, whereas killing them in a pot is way easier. It might depend on your soil, your zone, your latitude, your average rainfall, and most definitely on your style of gardening.

If you're the tough love kind of gardener then you might want to put them in a well-tended bed, but if you're a meticulous sort they may do better for you in pots. Under our hot Ozark sun, nothing is really ever safe in pots unless you're there monitoring it all the time.

If you put them directly in the ground, they will take a break for awhile (to put down awesome roots), and you may think they are not thriving. It may be next year before you see any real growth, but when they get going, look out. They will not suffer performance-wise from spending their baby days in the ground. It always seems to me that wilt affects the bigger plants that are growing a bit too fast, and don't have the root system necessary to support all that top growth. I have never personally seen a baby clem with wilt. But I have not seen it all, I realize. So, FWIW... When you're just starting out, it never hurts to try it both ways (like all of us seem to have done), and then you'll learn what works best for you in your garden.

Thanks everyone for all your advice! Since I don't have the spots ready yet for most of them they will have to be in pots for now.

I did pinch some back leaving one vine to bloom from. I hope this will encourage root growth.

I think I bought/ordered too many considering I don't have the spots ready for them yet. Yikes! So like me.

I'm with you Robin. Great post.

I too have had good luck planting "babies" directly into the ground.

Like almondstriations, I think it may be partly a location thing. I notice that most of us who have good success with direct planting in the ground tend to be more northern and cold. In my zone, fall planting of anything can be a bit iffy (based on whether we have a long or short autumn) and overwintering in pots even more so unless one has a cold greenhouse. My growing season is short, but we do have long, warm summer days and so the sooner something gets planted in the ground, the better it will be established going into winter.

To elaborate, I do not think people are wrong for potting up clematis, I just believe there are more benefits to getting them in the ground sooner, at least for myself. I look at it in much the same way one might look at starting an aquarium. Novice aquarists often think they should start small, in an attempt to keep things easy, but this is a false assumption. In a small tank, keeping the environment in a stable setting is much more difficult, where as in a larger environment, mistakes have to be much bigger to have catastrophic consequences. I feel the same thing applies to planting in the ground vs potting up. A small mistake in a pot is magnified by the limited size of the enclosure, while specimens planted in the ground have more of a "buffer."

The one caveat to this argument is that potting up plants gives the grower complete control. If one is able to consistently give plants the care & attention they need while potted, more power to them; many excellent growers use pots quite exclusively, and do great with them. Reporting on how I've done, the only clems I've ever lost are two to some pesky chickens that didn't know my garden was off-limits.

One of the recent things I have learned is that the section at Lowes where they keep plants they have 'lightly killed' is a great place to pick up marked down perennials. One day while I was browsing, I came across a very large number of Clematis in tiny little 4 inch pots for 99 cents apiece.

A sweet little old lady and I were going through looking at how many different ones they had and I wondered aloud if any of them would make it. She told me, "Honey, I've got a yard full of Clematis, and these little things are a lot tougher than you think."

I ended up with about ten different 'lightly killed' leafless Clematis babies that I planted in a new bed along a fence and she was right. Every single one of them made it.

However, I'm a good baby plant Daddy and I did pay a heck of a lot of attention to them that first Summer, since they had already had a traumatic childhood and were bought and planted in August.