My designer did not guide me too much regarding appliances. We had looked at several before we hired her and had narrowed the fridge and ranges choice down to 3 each and then went from there (DW was bought the day we went to the store). She did weigh in a tiny bit on the hood, but not much. I have no idea what is typical but I didn't feel like I needed help in my choices. However, I was not trying to decide between different cooktop/oven options. I'd be curious to see what is the norm on this.

Thanks. I didnt think the designer would have too much input on the actual brand etc, but more have opinions on what the best layout would be to help guide range vs. wall ovens etc.

That seems reasonable, as it makes a huge difference in the overall layout.

That does seem reasonable - with the caveat that if your layout is challenging, a good designer might ask how strong your preferences are and possibly suggest alternative configurations with regard to cooking appliances. Some layouts work great with double ovens, while others are much more efficient with a range. If you have strong preferences, no reason not to start with those as a constraint on the layout. Fridges and DWs are pretty standard unless you get something custom or do drawer DWs.

How old are you? I ask because as we age, it's easier to have wall ovens to take things in and out of. Bending down constantly to put things in and out of the oven can become an issue if you have a bad back, etc.

Also what type of cooking are you talking about? Gas or induction? My induction cooktop was about $2000, so not sure where you're getting $3,000 for a range top?

I'm 40, although I do have some lower back issues. So that might be a reason to go with wall ovens. I'm looking for gas. I know I can get a cooktop for $1000 but for whatever reason I don't like the look. Range tops have the knobs in front and just look more substantial to me. With a cooktop I feel like you're missing the statement that a range makes. But dont know that it makes sense to take up room with a range + a wall oven, which was my thought on getting a double oven range since I need 2 ovens.

I just finished a remodel and I replaced my stove with a wall oven and cooktop.

My choice was NOT driven by aesthetics but by functionality. I opted for a side opening wall oven placed at an ideal height for me with a microwave drawer underneath.

In general wall ovens are seen in larger and/or more upscale kitchens. This didn't drive my decision since although the FMV of my Los Angeles condo would buy a mansion in most places (but not Los Angeles LOL), almost every remodeled unit in my building opted for a standard stove arrangement - driven by function (kitchens are small) as well as cost to some extent

The cost of installing a wall oven is not insignificant - A decent wall oven (or two) plus a range top is just the beginning. You need a cabinet to house the wall oven and this tends to be an expensive piece of cabinetry. You also need to pay for installation of these units versus a stove which is just plugged in or attached to the gas line. Your electrical may or may not be upgraded - mine did because according to Code, each appliance needs to be on its own electrical circuit and I didn't have enough of them with high enough wattage.

Your designer is asking you about appliances because providing specifications of each appliance is critical in order for the kitchen to be designed properly. Stay long enough on this forum and you will read of refrigerators that don't open - stoves that block drawers from opening and other assorted errors.

Kitchenaid is a fairly good brand but once you make your decision regarding wall oven versus stove, you can figure out exactly what you want. FWIW I went with Bosch oven; Bosch induction cooktop, Bosch dishwasher, Sharp microwave drawer and Kitchenaid refrigerator but I made a decision based on reviews of each category of appliance.

You seem to be basing your decision solely on aesthetics which is fine. If you can afford the increased cost go for it. I made many decisions based on aesthetics which were more expensive than I otherwise needed to spend in terms of function. .

Thanks! I totally understand I need to make a commitment and then someone will work with me. I have a few more appts set up.This designer probably just isnt for me but she seemed to just dismiss my questions, say you need a 36" range and that's what I'm going to do instead of having a conversation or hearing me out. So I guess my question in part is, is that really necessary, would there be a reason not to go with a 30" double oven. she didnt seem to take my questions about function into consideration...

I had the space for a gas range with a single oven and then an electric oven with a microwave above in adjacent wall.

I went with a Bosch side-swing double wall oven and cooktop and am very glad I did. I also noticed, though, that at least with the brands I looked at for freestanding ranges the ovens were even lower than in my prior range/stove. As I recall I think they had eliminated the warming drawer. At any rate if your back is an issue that is something to keep in mind.

I loved our KD (third I interviewed) but have to admit that on first meeting, we mostly talked about how we cooked, broad aesthetics, and general budget issues,not specific sizes and brands. She did give me some "homework" to consider but we clicked. If I'd felt my questions were being dismissed, as you mentioned, I would have kept looking.

Our designer did not help us with picking appliances. First, she designed a kitchen we liked with opportunities to tweak. Then, we went to an appliance store, got an education on different appliances and determined which ones were best for us and made sure the KD could fit them in our kitchen or could make tweaks to the design so that they would fit.

As for selecting each appliance... it really is best to understand HOW you cook, your budget, and the aesthetics you're after before selecting appliances. I would not select an appliance based on looks alone. Really think about the above and go to an appliance store for an education. Not a big box store, but a local appliance store and understand what is out there in the marketplace.

You need an actual KD and they rarely tell you what appliances to get . IMO no one in a regular kitchen needs a 48” range even commercial kitchens do not hav e 48” ranges I fyou post your to scale floor plan on graph paer and show all windows doorways etc you will get some very good advice here A good KD designs a space for how you cook .

I actually never start a kitchen design without knowing the appliances since they have to fit into any design.

Aside from your age, back problems, and preference for gas, what and how do you cook? Do you bake a lot? Or make stir fry regularly? Do a lot of canning? Or heat up take-out? How and what you cook influences your choice of appliances.

Also, if you have doubts about KitchenAid, which you should, you should stay away from Zline and Thor. Also, if function is as important to you in a kitchen as form (aesthetics), don't get all your appliances from one brand.

Thanks! I guess I'm having a chicken or egg problem in my head. I definitely like to cook, and definitely need 2 ovens, particularly for when I entertain, which doesn't happen too frequently with younger kids but happened a lot pre kids, and I hope will happen more. I do bake a good bit. I don't think I need more than 4 burners, which is why I feel 30" is sufficient. And if I get a double oven range then I would think I could use the extra space for more counterspace or pantry or both. If I go with the 36" + wall ovens I feel like I would lose storage/counterspace but I might have enough of both of those anyway, particularly with the island that I'll have, which is why my thought was I needed to see designs before I could determine appliances to see what the trade offs would be. I guess I was very taken aback by how dismissive this particular designer was about my Cafe 30" double oven thought that I wanted to get a sense of it that was so much worse.

Consumer Reports (https://www.consumerreports.org/join - $10/month digital) has reviews of many types of appliances including predicted reliability. It's a good place to start. After selecting a few well-rated products, you can read owners' anecdotal reviews on sites such as Home Depot, and Best Buy. appliancesconnection.com is a good sales site for narrowing down appliance options based on product attributes.

Thanks. I looked a bit at consumer reports which is what turned me off Kitchenaid, which was surprising after how much my person at the appliance place was pushing them.

Consumer Reports gets it wrong a lot in the appliance space.

Appliances are a tough call in general because one person loves KA, another had a terrible experience. The reviews are all over the place. As wd points out, the only useful line on those reviews is reliability, reflected in service calls to the manufacturer, and even that data isn't great.

My KA kitchen was great for the beach cottage. The range was gas and beautiful, worked perfectly, the fridge was gorgeous and a French Door which I needed because of aisle clearance. The KA dishwasher I have at home now is stainless inside and out and was installed in the 1980s. I'm not getting rid of it in the reno.

If you know what you want (i.e., the world's quietest dishwasher, or a cooktop that can melt chocolate) it really helps.

So what do you care about in your space?

I would consider the 36" range top over a 30". Just because you only need 4 burners, doesn't mean that you can USE those 4, or even 3 at the same time. I cook for 6 so most of my pots and pans are large. I can fit 2 at a time, no more, otherwise the pans are not centered on the flame. Going from 30" to a 36" was high on the list for me....but then I started thinking how long that 36" oven takes to heat up...so I ended up with a 48" so I can have a larger and a small oven, and one of my daughters can cook side by side with me. I don't like the look of wall ovens so this was the right fit for me.

“I looked a bit at consumer reports which is what turned me off Kitchenaid, which was surprising after how much my person at the appliance place was pushing them”

One thing I found out doing my kitchen is that recommendations can be heavily weighted by the bonuses and incentives currently offered by a particular manufacturer.

We did a 36” gas cook top & an electric wall oven in our remodel that we just did. My wife & I cook together a lot & the extra space is nice to have. Ask your sell how do you cook? If there is more than one of you in there what kind of space do you have or need? Stick with 1 manufacture for as may of the appliances you can do to rebates & discounts / free extra appliances (dish washer / hood). To be honest I would not do Zline or Thor. If you are going to stay in your home, look at established brands that you know you can have serviced over the years. We started looking at Kitchenade then jumped up to GE Monogram & then went down a rabbit hole to Wolf / Sub zero. Sticker shock but we love the stuff and now would do it all over again. We look at it as an investment into our home at this point & appliances that will last. We started looking at appliances early to learn & know we were going to spend a little more. There are a lot of good brands out there that aren’t crazy $$$ too. If you want duel fuel look at gas cooktop & Electric wall oven may be the way to go & cheaper then duel fuel range. Check out Bosch & Bertazzoni as well. There are a lot of people in my area that have been installing Bertazzoni appliances & seem to like them. Do your homework on the appliances & look for bundling to save some money. That may make it to where you can go one step up on appliances as well. Stay away from microwave vent hoods too. They don’t work that good as a vent hood. The site the person posted above is a good place to look thru as well. Also, if you are looking at doing anything built in like an oven, microwave or refrigerator look at them being flush mount or having them mounted proud of the cabinets. You will pay more for any US made appliances as well. Go to an appliance show room & just aske a bunch of questions. That’s what there for. They will know more than someone at Home depot or Loews regardless of what brand your looking at.

Take the time to go to as may show rooms just to look at stuff. You may see something in a display you never thought of. I’m an Architect and I still drove all over town looking at stuff to see if there was anything I was missing or didn’t think of.

Do you want duel fuel / Gas Electric to cook with? Duel stacked burners on cooktop / range for simmering?

Check out Zephyr rang hoods. They make good stuff ant they look good. We went for a 36” Zephyr rang hoods over the Wolf. A lot less $$ & looks just as good. Another friend that put in all Bluestar appliances did the same thing. He put in a 48” hood & likes it a lot.

https://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Zephyr%3BRange+Hoods/N~32+4294967239%3Bmv_pc~gg%3Bmv_ca~zephyr%3Bgclid~Cj0KCQiAt_PuBRDcARIsAMNlBdpG5WET22SLb08cOlxb7aMWMjvG5e96g6zNvk15kF_DJ-robauqPSYaAjoOEALw_wcB

Jon, I also have a 48" Zephyr hood ;)

I have a 36” all gas 6 burner range and double KA wall ovens that I happen to love but they are 12 yrs old . I run a catering biz from my home and have never found I needed more for cooking or baking. If you were my client we would sit down and have a long talk about how you cook and what you cook.

"Thanks. I didnt think the designer would have too much input on the actual brand etc, but more have opinions on what the best layout would be to help guide range vs. wall ovens etc."

I would caution against letting a designer tell you how your kitchen should be laid out, to a point. The designer we worked with*** (more on that later) was all about looks and not at all about true functionality. An architect friend, who cooked along side me, designed my kitchen layout and cabinetry. The designer pushed back at every turn but I stuck to my guns and am thrilled with the final result.

The first designer we consulted told me straight out that he would not put anything on paper until we had our appliances settled and spec from the supplier. He did recommend a few dealers and we ended up going with one of those suggestions. This designer needed to hand us off to his co-worker to finish the project.

Point being, make sure you get a designer that shares your vision - do you want a kitchen for cooking? Or looks?

• Like | 2
• Save

BTW: There is such a thing as a range top. Basically the top of a range put into your counter. Same knobs facing the front, no oven. You could do one of these and a wall oven elsewhere.

If your KD doesn’t interview you extensively about your cooking habits, favorite recipes, gadget collection, pot and pan preference, shopping and storage philosophy, your budget, and your remodel goals, then of course they won’t even be able to advise you on appliance selections. And they won’t design a personalized kitchen that works either. Cabinet sellers don’t want that level of interaction and responsibility.

It is smart to build your space around the appliances first. A lot of people pick their appliances last. Not smart. They will spend a lot on the cabinets & fishes & then realize they don’t have the money for the appliances that they wanted. Make a list if the things you need & or want & the sizes.

As for the designer not working on anything until they have the appliances picked that sounds lazy to me. They should be able to give you a basic layout & ideas then tighten up the drawings when they have the actual sizes of the appliances. When I drew up my kitchen, I got all the CAD block (appliance drawings) off the manufactures web sit & just plug them in to my drawing. If they can’t get you a basic lay out find someone ells to work with.

When you are having things installed go behind the installers & look at stuff & ask questions if something doesn’t look right. Pull out a tape measure too and check stuff if you have too. Pre lay things out on the floor with painters tape as well. I work in the construction industry as an architect for a big commercial contractor. I can’t believe how much stuff I had to have people redo. Pleas be your own advice on your project & talk to the guys doing the work or the contractor doing it.

The archives of the Kitchen and Appliance forums are helpful for information and reviews of various appliances.

I also like the Yale Appliance website and blog for some good information.

And if for anyone who wants to read Consumer Reports, go through your library, which should have a free subscription.

Re: the GE Cafe 48” double oven range - I have one and love it, but... If you really need two ovens, you should know that the second oven is VERY small. Like, only my very smallest baking sheet or a 7x11 casserole dish will fit in there. I’ve never had a second oven, so even a very small 2nd oven is an improvement for me, and wall ovens didn’t fit well into my kitchen layout, so this was the best option. But definitely make sure you’re ok with the size of the second oven if you think you might go that route.

Thanks. I was thinking of the 30” double which has them stacked on top of each other. But the designer, who I’m not using, says a 30 in would be dwarfed. It might be best functionality for me though. I worry with a 48 in that the 2nd oven is too small. I just noticed a Five Star 48 inch which has 2 equal sized ovens but don’t know anything about the brand. Anyone else to that? They’re both 19x19 which seems a good size. I seem to read that ventilation is more expensive with a 48. If I plan to build ventilation to outside regardless what is additional cost aside from a bigger hood?

That range seems to have 2 ovens that aren't that big. looks like there under 3sqft. My 30in oven has 5sqft of space in it. Can you fit your sheet pans or Turkey in that oven that size?

I think so. I measured my sheet pan and roaster. Trying to look in person.

have you been able to see it in person? If you can see it along side other ranges you can see the pros and cons pretty fast and see if you love it or not. read the reviews as well. one of my favorite things with our oven is the slid out racks and how smooth it is. yes i dorked out on the kitchen stuff. sometimes its the littel things that sells you on stuff.

This conversation would be better served with a floor plan...since you are in the planning stages there will be lots of other elements that will come into consideration in regards to your appliance choices....i dont think the appliances should absolutely be the starting point...the way your kitchen is laid out is first...then selection of appliances that fit well ....can be next...the one thing i strongly recommend is a sizable pantry...preferably with no door, but no view from the kitchen,if possible....this is an old but positive way to keep the kitchen open and airy while all the smaller “stuff” is handy but not in view...double ovens use up lots of space where cabinets and drawers would be more desired in the kitchen...perhaps even the second oven could be in the pantry...at this point a visit to a reputable appliance store can be visited for advice....picking the appliances first and then designing the kitchen around them seems unnecessarily limiting to me

Right now this is what the architect put together but we talked about how a designer would prob change it. We do have pantry space but it’s shallow and I’m losing my dining hutch. I worry with the wall ovens I won’t have enough counter space and I also want an appliance garage for my instant pot/blender if possible. I was thinking 36” rangetop with pot storage underneath and the wall ovens but counter space question got me thinking I’m better with the 30” double oven. I measured 48 and it’s too big I think for the space.

Our large family does a lot of family get togethers. Two ovens is definitely a plus when preparing meals for 20-30 people. My kitchen has just one oven, but I have a large bbq and a tregger grill and like to prepare steaks and other meats with the sous vide method, so a single oven has worked based on the use of alternative cooking methods.

My two sisters both have 2 ovens, but are less inclined to use other cooking methods. Their homes and double ovens are a necessity for Christmas baking. One oven doesn't work when you are baking 10 dozen anything.

My one sister has a double wall oven / cooktop and my oldest sister has a range and a single wall oven. Baking dozens of cookies with one person in charge of ovens works best with the two wall ovens. Cooking large meals with a lot of different dishes seems to work better with the single wall oven and the range. We seem to work around each other better with this setup.

I was also surprised when I talked to my sister recently and she told me that she isn't in love with her huge island for day to day cooking (I think it is about 8' x 4'). It is the bomb when we have 5 or 6 of us together baking pastries. Her problem is constantly walking around the island when making a small meal.

I have been giving a lot of thought to my kitchen reno - coming up next year. Not sure what is most important, but I am leaning toward maximizing my counter space over additional cooking space.

The most important thing is that the kitchen functions well for you and your family and that is different for every family.

As a start i would extend the pantry wall and remove the counter at the end...this will allow you to omit all upper cabinets (with the option of open shelving if desired) and will give the room a bigger more open feeling.....plus it will supply all the room for anything you may wish to keep in cabinets.....next i would move the dishwasher to the other side of the sink to leave the counter by the door open as a drop off spot at entry... lastly ...but most importantly i would extend the window as wide as possible on the sink wall.....this and removing upper cabinets will transform your kitchen ...if enlarging the island is possible ...that would be more useable counter and seating space for todays lifestyle that makes the kitchen the heart of the home

To pile on to a few previous good comments...

START with functionality. How do you cook today and expectations for the future. Styles of food, for how many, how frequently, etc. What do you need or want to accomplish this. Need and want are different. I can do with a lot less than I have today or will have in our new kitchen (e.g., Need) but having better or more options makes things more enjoyable, less frustrating, etc (Want).

SECOND, think about comfort, health and safety. Bending over, especially with heavy pans, can be uncomfortable, cause increased back pains, and could be dangerous if you drop something. OTOH, if you are relatively fit then bending over frequently is fairly safe, healthy and will help to keep you fit.

For us this exercise led to: 48" all gas range w/ 4 burners + 24" thermostatic griddle / flat-top, Miele Masterchef electric wall oven, Miele XXL combi-steam, GE Advantium fast bake microwave, and a Miele warming drawer. We don't need all of this but it makes cooking easier and more enjoyable for the large groups we frequently have over.

We also placed the warming drawer at waist height next to the oven stack (combi-steam over electric) instead of below since we use it very frequently. A drawer for infrequently used pans is below the oven stack.

LAST. Aesthetics. Once we'd chosen our appliances for their function and located them for best and most comfortable functionality we then designed and styled cabinets around them.

HU-700412955 What cabinet finish & door style are you looking for?

Most kitchen designers are good primarily at organization and aesthetics. Most are not chefs, are not well versed in appliances and an amazing number still believe in the 'kitchen triangle'.

To overcome these shortcomings you should read Donald Silvers 'kitchen design with cooking in mind' and make liberal use of the great resources on this forum.